tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Jun 28 12:48:23 1995

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Re: yIwIv



>Date: Wed, 28 Jun 1995 13:11:08 -0400
>Originator: [email protected]
>From: "William H. Martin" <[email protected]>

>According to Mark E. Shoulson:

>> I'm not so sure that it works in all cases, though.  I haven;'t got too
>> many specific examples in mind, but it may not be sufficiently general, or
>> it may also fall prey to being too idiomatic.  It may sound like I'm asking
>> you to choose something when in fact you have no control over it at all,
>> but are merely indicating a "choice" that may hev been made for you,
>> perhaps confusing you...  For example, plans have been intercepted, and
>> your captain asks, "choose the planets which the Terrans will attack."
>> "You mean I get to decide?"  I suppose if you view "wIv" as more like
>> "indicate" (le'moH?) it might be clearer.

>le'be''a' ghu'vetlh? Isn't that special?

>Actually, given your setting, that the captain knows that you
>have the intercepted plans and is asking, "Which planets will
>the Terrans attack?" the sentence could just be:

>tera'ngan nab DaSov. yuQmey'e' HIvbogh tera'nganpu' HI'ang!

True.

>> I also have a gut-feeling that there are simply constructions for which
>> yIwIv just falls apart (no examples now, so I may be wrong.  It's happened
>> before.  At least twice.)  It also doesn't help us with the "which"
>> constructions that are not questioning.  We've been using questioning
>> pronouns as relatives sometimes, on the grounds that it's like two
>> sentences with the second answering the first (translating "I saw what you
>> did" as "What have you done?  I saw that." [nuq Data'pu' 'e' vIlegh] or
>> "The what which you have done I saw" [nuq Data'pu'bogh vIlegh]).  It should
>> be noted that this is NOT cannon usage, but on the whole is more reasonable
>> that it might seem at first glance.  

>For this, I would tend to say:

>Qu'lIj Data'pu'bogh vIleghpu'. I would avoid using a question
>word when you do not intend a question. wanI' DaqaSmoHbogh
>vIleghpu'. That's just another approach.

>> But I don't think yIwIv will help us
>> in "I saw which targhs the captain liked."

>That doesn't really seem to need more than {targhmey'e'
>parHa'bogh HoD vIlegh.} or {targhmey'e' parHa'bogh HoD
>vIghovlaH.}

You're right.  As you (and qo'ran) pointed out, this is a lousy example.  I
would prbably use -bogh at this point as well.  I did say I had no good
examples offhand. :)  I guess I tried to come up with some too fast.
Nonetheless, I have a vague feeling that somewhere out there there *are*
examples for whiuch "wIv" doesn't really fill the bill.  But yu probably
could have guessed that too.

~mark


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