tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Jun 28 12:48:23 1995
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Re: yIwIv
>Date: Wed, 28 Jun 1995 13:11:08 -0400
>Originator: [email protected]
>From: "William H. Martin" <[email protected]>
>According to Mark E. Shoulson:
>> I'm not so sure that it works in all cases, though. I haven;'t got too
>> many specific examples in mind, but it may not be sufficiently general, or
>> it may also fall prey to being too idiomatic. It may sound like I'm asking
>> you to choose something when in fact you have no control over it at all,
>> but are merely indicating a "choice" that may hev been made for you,
>> perhaps confusing you... For example, plans have been intercepted, and
>> your captain asks, "choose the planets which the Terrans will attack."
>> "You mean I get to decide?" I suppose if you view "wIv" as more like
>> "indicate" (le'moH?) it might be clearer.
>le'be''a' ghu'vetlh? Isn't that special?
>Actually, given your setting, that the captain knows that you
>have the intercepted plans and is asking, "Which planets will
>the Terrans attack?" the sentence could just be:
>tera'ngan nab DaSov. yuQmey'e' HIvbogh tera'nganpu' HI'ang!
True.
>> I also have a gut-feeling that there are simply constructions for which
>> yIwIv just falls apart (no examples now, so I may be wrong. It's happened
>> before. At least twice.) It also doesn't help us with the "which"
>> constructions that are not questioning. We've been using questioning
>> pronouns as relatives sometimes, on the grounds that it's like two
>> sentences with the second answering the first (translating "I saw what you
>> did" as "What have you done? I saw that." [nuq Data'pu' 'e' vIlegh] or
>> "The what which you have done I saw" [nuq Data'pu'bogh vIlegh]). It should
>> be noted that this is NOT cannon usage, but on the whole is more reasonable
>> that it might seem at first glance.
>For this, I would tend to say:
>Qu'lIj Data'pu'bogh vIleghpu'. I would avoid using a question
>word when you do not intend a question. wanI' DaqaSmoHbogh
>vIleghpu'. That's just another approach.
>> But I don't think yIwIv will help us
>> in "I saw which targhs the captain liked."
>That doesn't really seem to need more than {targhmey'e'
>parHa'bogh HoD vIlegh.} or {targhmey'e' parHa'bogh HoD
>vIghovlaH.}
You're right. As you (and qo'ran) pointed out, this is a lousy example. I
would prbably use -bogh at this point as well. I did say I had no good
examples offhand. :) I guess I tried to come up with some too fast.
Nonetheless, I have a vague feeling that somewhere out there there *are*
examples for whiuch "wIv" doesn't really fill the bill. But yu probably
could have guessed that too.
~mark