tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Aug 05 05:33:16 2015

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Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Beginners corner

Will Martin ( [KLI Member] [Hol po'wI']

<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">Qov answered you well. Until someone else is assigned the role of Beginners’ Grammarian, she gets first dibs. As a former BG, myself, I fondly remember when I was first learning the language and Captain Krankor answered my questions and patiently set me on the path to learning the warrior tongue.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I’ll continue to a greater depth in response to your post. Please do not misinterpret my actions as negativity or criticism. The language is impossible to learn all at once, and anyone who tries, as you have, to say a variety of things will stumble into aspects of the language that might not be obvious, and your attempts to explore this will give you even more insight into the language.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">You wrote {mugh jInID.} Since you didn’t provide an English translation, I have to guess a little, though it looks a lot like you wanted to say, “I try to translate.” The problem is with “to translate”. That’s what’s called an “infinitive”. It’s a form of the verb that has no subject. Klingon doesn’t have infinitives.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">With one exception that I know of, Klingon never uses a verb without a subject. That exception is the {-meH} clause. When you add {-meH} to a verb, that verb states the purpose of the main verb, or of a noun. The classic example of it modifying a noun is {ghojmeH taj}. We’d call it a “beginner’s knife”, but the literal translation is more like “an in-order-to-learn knife” or “a knife whose purpose is to learn”.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">So, thinking through the statement “I try to translate,” you could recast that idea as “In order that I translate, I try,” or “the purpose of my attempt is to translate.” {mughmeH jInID.} You could also say {jImughmeH jInID}. The canon examples we have of verbs with {-meH} are not perfectly consistent, though the pattern that I have learned is that when a {-meH} clause modifies a main clause, (giving the purpose of an action), the verb with {-meH} may or may not have a subject and/or object. The presence or absence of a subject seem to work fine. But when a {-meH} verb modifies a noun, it is far more common for there to be no subject or object implied, so no prefix on the verb (like {ghojmeH taj}).</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Next, your use of prefix in {jIchenmoH} is unusual. Literally, {chenmoH} means “cause to form.” To say, “I cause to form” is odd because it doesn’t have much meaning if there isn’t something that I am causing to form. You need an object. The prefix for “I cause it to form” is {vI-}, so I would have expected you to say {vIchenmoH}. Consider that as an option.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Similarly, going back earlier, you could have said {vImughmeH jInID}. “In order that I translate it, I try,” or “I try with the purpose that I translate it.” It sounds stilted in English only because I’m favoring something closer to a literal translation for teaching purposes. When we translate it, we usually make it more like English and say, “I’ll try to translate it,” which is grammatically very different from the Klingon because this is a case where English and Klingon lack parallel grammar.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Lastly, you said {choQaH}, which is perfectly formed, but probably doesn’t quite mean what you intended. It is a statement. “You help me.” If you want it to be a command, there’s a different prefix for that: {HIQaH.} “Help me."</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I hope this is helpful to you. Don’t feel even the slightest bit bad for not already knowing all this stuff, and don’t expect to learn it all at once. We are delighted to see you trying. It is much better to stumble, attempting to walk, than it is to safely sit and never learn to walk.</div><br class=""><div class="">
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;  "><div class="">pItlh</div><div class="">lojmIt tI'wI'nuv</div><div class=""><br class=""></div></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">

<br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Aug 4, 2015, at 4:00 AM, Maxim Sonin &lt;<a href=""; class=""></a>&gt; wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><p dir="ltr" class="">"We are not angels, boy": mugh jInID.<br class="">
"loDHom, Qulpu' maHbe'": jIchenmoH.<br class="">
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