tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu Apr 09 12:06:49 2015

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Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Using betleH vocabulary (was RE: Klingon Word of the Day: jIrmoH)

lojmitti7wi7nuv (lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com)



I agree on almost all of these. {gholwI’ qabvaD jIchaQ} sounds like I’m trying to show off without any implication that it’s done anywhere near my adversary’s face. I much prefer {gholwI’ qabDaq jIchaQ}. The whole idea of the sentence is that an action is occurring toward a location; the location of my adversary’s face. {-vaD}? Like, maybe I think he’ll look better if I trim his beard, or scrape a little smear of blood pie from his cheek? If I’m sweeping toward his face, I want {-Daq}.

Otherwise, I completely agree that IF THERE ISN’T A BETTER WORD THAT YOU CAN THINK OF, bending a specific definition toward a more generic meaning is simply the best we can do. It’s like we’re tourists trying to speak someone else’s native tongue. {chay’ Dajatlh…?} Maybe we’ll amuse that natives. Maybe they’ll even think we are clever. But if our speech is heavily laced with it, we just sound like idiots. One hopes they don’t choose our apparent lack of intelligence as an appropriate criterion for thinning our herd.

The use of {ngol} for rotating a table carried through a door verges on perfect clipped Klingon. Any native speaker would reflexively respond to training and take the thing in his or her hands and rotate it appropriately. They’d do it before they even realized that you’d misused the word. They’d probably grin as soon as they realized what just happened.

You might even just yell {ngol!}. Even well-trained targs would respond appropriately to THAT.

lojmIt tI’wI’ nuv ‘utlh
Retired Door Repair Guy

> On Apr 8, 2015, at 3:59 PM, Robyn Stewart <robyn@flyingstart.ca> wrote:
> 
> I wish I could run sentences like these past Maltz.
> 
> betleH vIchaQ.
> jIchaQ.  
> gholwI' qabDaq jIchaQ.
> gholwI' qabvaD jIchaQ.
> betleH vIngol.
> yIngol! (said while helping someone carry a table through a door).
> 
> My interpretation is that all of these are useable: that is that a betleH is
> the expected and implied object of the verb, such that when no object is
> specified it is assumed to be about a betleH, but that the action could be
> understood for other objects, just as if I told my partner to "steer right"
> or "pitch up" when carrying the hypothetical table.
> 
> It can be frustrating when we have specialized vocabulary but lack generic
> terms.  The temptation is to use the specialized word metaphorically, but I
> don't want to dilute its true meaning.  
> 
> - Qov
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steven Boozer [mailto:sboozer@uchicago.edu] 
> Sent: April 8, 2015 8:26
> To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
> Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Klingon Word of the Day: jIrmoH
> 
>> Klingon Word of the Day for Wednesday, April 08, 2015
>> 
>> Klingon word: jIrmoH
>> Part of speech: verb
>> Definition: twirl *bat'leth*, cause *bat'leth* to rotate
>> Source: KGT
> 
> KGT 60:  There is an extensive vocabulary for the moves associated with
> bat'leth use. To thrust or lunge toward one's opponent, for example, is
> {jop}... To twirl or rotate the bat'leth is {jIrmoH} and to toss it from one
> hand to the other (the same word is used whether left to right or right to
> left) is {baQ}.
> 
> N.B. the causative of {jIr} "rotate, twirl".  Not known whether {jIrmoH} is
> specialized jargon limited to bat'leths only (cf. for example {chuH}
> "throw/hurl (a spear) at").  
> 
> SEE ALSO:
> 
> yan 		wield, use or manipulate a sword (v)
> 
> jaD 		throw around, hurl about (V)
> jIr  		rotate, twirl (v)
> DIng 		spin (v)
> tlhe' 	turn (v)
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Voragh
> Ca'Non Master of the Klingons
> 
> 
> 
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