tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Sep 24 13:58:32 2014

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Re: [Tlhingan-hol] this / that as subject

lojmitti7wi7nuv ([email protected]) 

Please note that {SoH} is not listed as a noun in TKD. It is a pronoun. A pronoun is categorized as chuvmey. You can use it in a sentence in place of a noun and you can use it as a verb. Meanwhile, it is neither a noun nor a verb, so you should not start out with the idea of experimentally putting every kind of noun and/or verb suffix on it and then subtract the ones that don't make sense. 

You should start out with the idea of not using any suffixes of any type on a pronoun, except where you are explicitly told that you can. Any suffix on a pronoun is exceptional, and while exceptions are valid, remember that they are exceptions. We know you can use {-taH} on a pronoun while it is acting as a verb. We have examples in canon. There are a lot more suffixes NOT shown to be used with pronouns than ones that ARE shown, and likely there is very little need of expanding the vocabulary of suffixes placed on pronouns.

We should start out looking for examples in canon of other suffixes on pronouns, and for the most part, steer clear of creative use of previously unseen suffix use on pronouns.

For the most part, I see pronouns used as the verb "to be" much more often than I see it used as a noun. Typically, use of it as a noun is redundant to the verb prefix, and Klingons don't tend to waste a lot of syllables on grammatical redundancy. They don't even consistently use the plural suffix if context suggests the noun is plural. How many other languages do THAT?

And if you used {-wI'}, how would you know whether it was being used as a noun suffix or a verb suffix?

I really think it's better to have something to say and work at saying it in Klingon than it is to look at a word type and try to yank it every which way when you don't need it to say anything.

Children learn language on a need to know basis. Why don't you?

That's not intended as an insult or a challenge. It's simple advice. You'll get better faster if you simply write stuff you want to say.

On Sep 24, 2014, at 2:44 PM, Philip Newton <[email protected]> wrote:

> On 24 September 2014 16:41, Brad Wilson <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Which then raises the question, is Type 5 the "only" noun suffix allowed on
>> pronouns? Using {SoHHom} would either elicit a confused look or a punch in
>> the face. And Type 4 possessives hardly seem useful - {SoHwI' ?!?}.
> 
> Nor do type 2 plurals ({chaHpu'}?? {SoHpu'}??).
> 
> Type 3 suffixes might occasionally be useful, though: {nuqDaq ghaH
> HoD'e'? -- ghaHHey vIlegh.} “Where’s the captain? -- Well, I see
> someone someone and I think it’s the captain, but I’m not sure it’s
> really he.”
> 
> Or if someone talks about killing a spy who had impersonated a friend,
> perhaps they might say, {SoHqoq qaHoHpu'} “I killed the so-called
> you”. (Or would that be {SoHqoq vIHoHpu'}?)
> 
> nuq 'oH vuDraj'e'?
> 
> Philip
> 
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