tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Aug 20 08:01:52 2013

Back to archive top level

To this year's listing

[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next]

[Tlhingan-hol] Story: ghuv = The Recruit - 2

Robyn Stewart ( [KLI Member] [Hol po'wI']

<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
<META NAME="Generator" CONTENT="MS Exchange Server version 14.02.5004.000">
<TITLE>Story: ghuv = The Recruit - 2</TITLE>
<!-- Converted from text/rtf format -->

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">No one</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"> <FONT FACE="Calibri">whined</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri"> for me not to do this, so</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"> <FONT FACE="Calibri">I</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"> <FONT FACE="Calibri">will</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"> <FONT FACE="Calibri">continue the task of turning</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"> <FONT FACE="Calibri">my short</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri"> story into a Klingon</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri"> parsing exercise/lesson. If you don&#8217;t need the exercise but want to read the story all at once, ask I and I will send it.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">vengDaq QI' muvmeH qachHom 'el. pa' loQ torgh yu' yaS 'ach vaqbe'. nuDlaHmeH Qel, waqmey, Sutmey je teq torgh 'ej pa' bIrDaq loS. vagh ben torgh 'IvtIH, chor je SIjchu' yobmeH mIqta' .</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">veng = city</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">-Daq = N5 locative</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">QI&#8217; = military</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">muv = join</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">-meH = V9 &#8211; in order to</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">qach = building</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">-Hom = N1 &#8211; diminutive</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">&#8216;el = enter</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">&lt;vengDaq&gt; meant &#8220;to the city&#8221; in a previous sentence and it could mean that here, but I can&#8217;t make it make sense that way.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"> <FONT FACE="Calibri">The suffix &#8211;Daq denotes position or movement</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"> <FONT FACE="Calibri">In/on/at/to ... which makes the most sense? </FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">QI&#8217; muvmeH = in order to join the military</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">qachHom = like a building but more minor, maybe a hut? kiosk? portable? tent? I envisioned a military recruiting station that isn&#8217;t a permanent structure, or isn&#8217;t an independent building.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"> <FONT FACE="Calibri">A mall storefront, even.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">&#8216;el = he enters</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">The &lt;QI&#8217; muvmeH qachHom&gt; part is a little ambiguous. A verb with -meH can modify a following noun as in &lt;ghojmeH taj&gt; &#8220;knife for learning&#8221; or it can form a clause &lt;ghojmeH Daj&gt; &#8220;he experiments in order to learn. &lt;ghojmeH taj lo&#8217;&gt; could mean &#8220;he uses a knife in order to learn&#8221; or &#8220;he uses a training knife.&#8221; There&#8217;s not a big difference, and if the author wants to make it clear that the guy is using a big boys&#8217; knife, and not a ghojmeH taj, he will. My sentence could read &#8220;In order to join the military, he enters a hut in the city,&#8221; or &#8220;In the city, he enters the military recruitment hut.&#8221; (the &#8220;military in-order-to-join hut.&#8221;) I was thinking the latter as I wrote, but I have to make sure that the former meaning is acceptable and works for the story, because I can&#8217;t control which way people parse it. Or rather I could, by breaking it into more sentences, and being more explicit, but that&#8217;s as much emphasis as this part of the story needs, and either reading will advance the reader&#8217;s understanding to where I need it to be.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">Next:</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"> <FONT FACE="Calibri">pa' loQ torgh yu' yaS 'ach vaqbe'.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">pa&#8217; = &#8220;room&#8221; or &#8220;there&#8221;, but as it precedes the adverb loQ it&#8217;s not the object of the verb, and it&#8217;s not a time stamp, so its role in the sentence has to be setting. If it meant &#8220;room&#8221; it would have to be pa&#8217;Daq &#8211; &#8220;in the room&#8221; to serve that purpose, but pa&#8217; - &#8220;there&#8221; does not take the suffix &#8211;Daq, so therefore it means there.</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">loQ = slightly, a little bit</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">torgh = our protagonist. Now he is the object of the verb, since he precedes it.</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">yu&#8217; = question, interrogate</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">yaS = officer &#8211; the subject of the verb</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">&#8216;ach = but</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">vaq = mock</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">be&#8217; = negation &#8211; you should remember this one</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">&#8220;There an officer questions Torg somewhat, but he does not mock him.&#8221;</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">In Klingon as English I assume that the object and subject carry through from the&nbsp; first part of the sentence so that it is the officer who does not mock Torg. I also hope Torg doesn&#8217;t mock the officer, or his military career may be short indeed.</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">nuDlaHmeH Qel, waqmey, Sutmey je teq torgh 'ej pa' bIrDaq loS.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">nuD = examine</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">-laH = V5 be able to</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">-meH = V9 in order to</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">Qel = doctor</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">waqmey = shoes (remember?)</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">Sutmey = clothes</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">je = and, joining nouns &#8211; notice how it goes AFTER both nouns: &lt;waqmey, Sutmey je&gt; = shoes and clothes</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">teq = takes off, removes</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">nuDlaHmeH could possibly be modifying Qel in the manner of &lt;ghojmeH taj&gt; but in order for that to work, young Torg would have to be removing &#8220;the doctor for the purpose of examining him, shoes and clothing.&#8221; It</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"> <FONT FACE="Calibri">only makes</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri"> sense to interpret this as &#8220;Torg removes</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"> <FONT FACE="Calibri">shoes and clothes in order that a doctor be able to examine him.&#8221;</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">&#8216;ej = and, joining sentences</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">pa&#8217; = room</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri"></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"> </SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">bIr = be cold</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">-Daq = N5 in/at/to</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">loS = waits</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">And now here&#8217;s pa&#8217; again, at the beginning of a clause with no &#8211;Daq, so does it mean &#8220;there&#8221;? No, it doesn&#8217;t, because it&#8217;s followed by a be-verb, a stative verb, which modifies a noun, and thus the &#8211;Daq that would otherwise be on pa&#8217; is on bIr. See TKD 3.4 for the explanation of this. pa&#8217; bIrDaq = &#8220;To/at/in a cold room&#8221; So which is it? To or In? What does he do to or in that room? He waits. So &#8220;And he waits in a cold room.&#8221; If the verb were &lt;qet&gt; it would be &#8220;And he runs to a cold room.&#8221;</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">&nbsp;Last sentence:</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"> <FONT FACE="Calibri">vagh ben torgh 'IvtIH, chor je SIjchu' yobmeH mIqta' .</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">vagh = five</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">ben = years ago</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">&#8216;IvtIH = hip</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">chor = belly</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">SIj = slit</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">-chu&#8217; = V7 perfectly, completely</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">yob = harvest</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">-meH = v9 &#8211; purpose</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">mIqta&#8217; = machinery</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">vagh ben = five years ago &#8211; If I translate this in the present, it&#8217;s &#8220;Five years ago&#8221; but Klingon doesn&#8217;t have a separate way of saying &#8220;Five years earlier&#8221; but if I translate it as past tense, that&#8217;s how I&#8217;d do it. Five years ago at the moment he&#8217;s here in the cold room waiting for the doctor. </FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">torgh &#8216;IvtIH = Torg&#8217;s hip &#8211; I think I can say &lt;torgh &#8216;IvtIH, chor je&gt; for &#8220;Torg&#8217;s hip and belly&#8221; but there may be someone who prefers &lt;torgh &#8216;IvtIH, torgh chor je&gt;. I don&#8217;t know whose belly they would be confused with otherwise.</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">SIjchu&#8217; = slit &#8216;perfectly&#8217; &#8211; Perfection doesn&#8217;t imply there is anything good about it. Is there a perfect way to be injured by agricultural machinery? I&#8217;d translate this as &#8220;slit wide open&#8221;</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">, &#8220;slit through&#8221;</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri"> or &#8220;slit all the way across&#8221;.</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">yobmeH mIqta&#8217; = harvesting machinery, machinery for the purpose of harvesting. There&#8217;s no doubt that this use of &#8211;meH is modifying the noun</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">,</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri"> because it comes at the end of the sentence and a &#8211;meH clause has to precede the clause whose purpose it defines.&nbsp; I dunno what Klingon agricultural machinery looks like, but I&#8217;ll bet it is glistening with sharp blades and has very little in the way of safety precautions. Torg is probably lucky to be alive.</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">-&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"> <FONT FACE="Calibri">Qov</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"></SPAN></P>

Tlhingan-hol mailing list

Back to archive top level