tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu May 10 09:02:56 2012
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Re: [Tlhingan-hol] being capable of language suffix class - property of noun, or referent?
At 01:34 '?????' 5/10/2012, De'vID jonpIn wrote:
When a noun that is not normally a "being capable of language" is used
to refer to such a being, which set of suffixes does it take?
Artificial example (not the actual idea I'm trying to express but has
a similar form/structure):
{SuvwI'vam vIwIv. SuvwI'vetlh DawIv. ghIq...}
- {Suvchuq wIvmeymaj}, or
- {Suvchuq wIvpu'ma'}?
The examples given, {Ho'}, {DeSqIv} are things that in isolation
would be instantly identified as nouns in a particular class, and I
agree that examples generally show that they continue to take the
same suffixes. I believe there's a counter example, but I can't recall it.
On the other hand, for nouns like latlh, wIv, nIvwI', reghwI' there
is no default what I'm going to call gender, because it serves the
same purpose, arbitrarily changing grammar and enabling
disambiguation where there otherwise would be none.
English: After the battle the warriors and their horses will return.
An aide-de-camp will immediately take care of the bleeding ones.
tlhIngan Hol: qaSpu'DI' may' chegh SuvwI'pu' Sarghmeychaj je. SIbI'
reghwI'mey QorghchoH boQDu'.
Ah, it's the horses that get immediate care. reghwI'pu' Qorghba' Qel'e'.
Would you really have me not say, {chobDaq loS baHwI', jonwI', HoD,
latlhpu' je}? If I read {chobDaq loS baHwI', jonwI', HoD, latlhmey
je} I ask {nuq bIH latlhmey'e'? qoqmey bIH'a'?}
*Hargh tlhachmey. Suvbe'choHDI' che'ronDaq nachDu', ghIchDu',
ghopDu', latlhDu' je.
Internet Explorer, Firefox, Chrome, latlh laDwI'mey je ngu'laH pat.
lutvamwIj laDwI'pu'wI' vItlho'qu'.
I think it's the difference between thing as metaphor, and word with
no strong gender assignment because it's a stand-in word like latlh,
or a word formed for the occasion (e.g. with -wI'). It would take a
lot to make me stop using whichever suffix made the meaning in this
context, because it's an extremely useful tool.
Ho'Du' for a comb is akin to "mice" referring to the computer
devices. Didn't need a new plural. (Counterexamples: VAXen and Unix
boxen -- do Klingons have nerds?) I think wIvmey/wIvpu' for animate
choices is akin to "It is my choice" vs. "He is my choice."
- Qov
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