tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Aug 13 15:46:36 2012
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[Tlhingan-hol] Marc on Aspect
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Part of me doesn't even want to post this, because the bitterness of the
argument about aspect made me feel that I had to betray someone with
every sentence I wrote in Klingon. I don't want that to start up again. I
told my husband, "I haven't even had time to read Marc's answer
carefully and compare it to the question to see who is going to be
gloating and who is going to accuse me of twisting the question, or
whatever will happen." <br><br>
He said, "Don't bother doing that. Just post it and let them
decide." <br><br>
Please embrace this new Klingon information and each other, and don't
make me regret bribing Maltz for this information.<br><br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">If Maltz is really in a good
mood, lead with this next one. He'll help the whole group--this is a big
question--with understanding aspect. As people bring knowledge of aspect
from extra reading and other languages, and take apart TKD with tweezers,
we have come up against a divide. I'm going to characterize it with a
couple of disputed meanings.<br><br>
<DaHjaj may'Duj lumutlhta' tlhIngan QI'.><br><br>
It might be translated as "Today the Klingon military have
constructed a battleship."<br><br>
Does it require that the Klingon military began construction of a
battleship and built it to completion all today?<br>
Does it mean that the construction was completed today but could have
commenced at any time?<br>
Does it mean that the construction is complete today, but could have been
completed before today?<br><br>
We're ready for some more depth on how Klingons treat aspect, more
examples, how does it interact with the negative, what uses sound right
and wrong. </blockquote><br>
Marc replied:<br>
<b>Regarding aspect, Maltz was a little less helpful (or a little less
clear). Of your three questions about what the sentence really means, he
said no to #1 and yes to #2 (though he pointed out that if the
construction of the ship did start and end the same day, that's included
in #2). For #3, he said if the <DaHjaj> wasn't there, it would mean
that as of the time of speaking the sentence, they would have finished
the construction (with no indication as to how long before that they
finished), and with the <DaHjaj>, it's #2. My guess is this will
lead to more questions. Maltz is always up for controversy.<br><br>
On another topic, Maltz thought it was interesting that the verb in the
sample sentence began with the prefix <lu->. He would have used no
prefix, assuming that <QI'> referred to the military establishment
in general. On the other hand, if it's expressing that several distinct
Klingon military organizations or branches collaborated in the effort,
the <lu-> makes sense. (Has Maltz opened another can of
<gharghmey>?)<br><br>
</b>====<br>
So I haven't even referred back and forth sufficiently to my question yet
to fully parse that. I have two days off now, then work 12 hours a day
again until I fly to qep'a' on the 26th. <br><br>
I'll just note that we now appear to know that Klingons use the
American-style 'group is singular.' <'oH mutlh QI>, and not <'oH
lumutlh>. cf "BP regret ..." vs. "Microsoft is
..."<br><br>
Lets figure out what the more questions should be in a few days so Marc
has time to think about them before qep'a'. Sorry if my question was not
the absolute best it could have been. I did try to gather some consensus
on what we needed to know.<br><br>
- Qov<br>
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