tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Fri Nov 11 07:28:30 2011
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Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Klingon Word of the Day: jang
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1F497D'>FYI here’s the entire interview as I have it:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>[Will Martin interviews Marc Okrand on verbs of speech (<b><i><span style='font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>HolQeD</span></i></b>, Dec 1998)]</span></font><font face="Courier New"><span style='font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>MO: ... Verbs of speech are "say" verbs, like <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>jatlh </span></b>and <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>ja'</span></b>.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>WM: In English, we use many of them.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>MO: Yes. In English, we say, "Give me some water," he said. "Give me<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'> some water," he pleaded. "Give me some water," he yelled.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>WM: He added. He begged. He opined.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>MO: Exactly. I think that's an English thing to do. That's not a Klingon<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'> thing to do. In Klingon, you <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>jatlh</span></b> and you <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>ja'</span></b>. That's about it. The<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'> guard asked the prisoner a question. He replied. He said, "[gestures a<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'> quotation he never quite made]"<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'> [After the intewiew, I made the following three lines of examples to show<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'> how this worked:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";font-weight:bold'> qama' yu''avwI'. jatlh Qu'lIj DarIn'a'?<o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";font-weight:bold'> 'avwI' jang qama'. jatlh tugh. vIrInmeH taj vlpoQ.<o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";font-weight:bold'> mon 'avwI'. jatlh chotojmeH bInIDchu'ta'.<o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'> Dr. Okrand modified one sentence and said he accepted them as valid but<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'> wanted it noted that they were my sentences and not his, in his words, "a<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'> suggestion by you, okayed by me." - WM]<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>WM: So, basically, in Klingon, you would just use <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>jatlh</span></b> a lot. If someone<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'> is asking a question, would you state the question and say <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>jatlh</span></b>?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>MO: If it's a direct quotation, I would. Yes. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>[clip]<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>MO: The way I see I see the verbs of speech, there may be more than just<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'> <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>ja'</span></b> and <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>jatlh</span></b>, but there is only a small number of words, unlike<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'> English. You have to use a separate sentence for the replying,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'> pleading, screaming. "He screamed. He said,'Come help me.'"<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>WM: Since a direct quotation grammatically looks like two separate<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'> sentences, you are saying that it would now look like three separate<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'> sentences at that point. You'd have one describing what style of<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'> verbalization he was having, one saying "he said" and one giving<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'> the quotation.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>MO: Yes.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>WM: Very interesting.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>[clip]<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>WM: Just to mention particular verbs in terms of whether they can be<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'> used for speech or not, you are saying that <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>ghel</span></b> is a word that<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'> would probably not be used typically as a verb of speech. That even<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'> if you are asking a question you would still tend to use <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>ja'</span></b> or <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>jatlh</span></b>.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>MO: Yes. "He asked me. He said,'blah, blah, blah.'" Or "He said,'blah,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'> blah, blah.' He asked me." It doesn't matter.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>WM: <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>jang</span></b> - "answer" would be similar?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>MO: Yes.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>WM: And <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>tlhob </span></b>would similarly be...<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>MO: <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>tlhob </span></b>also has the non-quoting sense.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>WM: Things you would unlikely use for speech are <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>bach</span></b>, <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>chel</span></b> ...<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>MO: <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>bach </span></b>is slang. The rules might be a little bit different. For non-<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'> slang...<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>WM: <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>chup </span></b>"suggest." <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>jach </span></b>"cry out." <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>SIv </span></b>"wonder."<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>MO: I've got to figure out what to do about "wonder." That summer, the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'> more I thought about it the more confused I got.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>WM: Are there any other verbs of speech that you would care to<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'> comment on?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>MO: Are there any other verbs of speech?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>WM: And a typical direct object of <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>ja'</span></b> would be the person addressed and<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'> a typical object of the verb <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>jatlh</span></b> would be the thing you say.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>MO: The speech event.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>WM: I like that term.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>MO: Including a direct quote. I'm telling a story. He "blah, blah, blah"<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'> <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>jatlh</span></b>.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Consolas><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D'>--<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Consolas><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D'>Voragh<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Consolas><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D'>Ca'Non Master of the Klingons<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><div style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Noah Bogart [mailto:[email protected]] <br><b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, November 11, 2011 9:21 AM<br><b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> [email protected]<br><b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Klingon Word of the Day: jang<o:p></o:p></span></font></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>As used in canon:<br><br> jang 'avwI' <<jIghung je>><br> The guard replies, "I am also hungry." PK<br><br> jang 'avwI' <<jI'oj je>><br> The guard replies, "I am also thirsty." PK<br><br> jang 'avwI' <<lIchopbe'chugh ghewmey!>><br> The guard answers, "If the bugs do not bite you!" PK<br><br><br>Related verbs:<br>{ghel} "ask (a question)", {yu'} "question, interrogate" & {tlhob} "ask, request, plead"<br><br><br>Mark Okrand described the use of {jang} in an interview with Will Martin (HolQeD [Dec. 1998: p.4-7]):<br><br> [....]<br><br>WM: Just to mention particular verbs in terms of whether they can be<br> used for speech or not, you are saying that {ghel} is a word that<br> would probably not be used typically as a verb of speech. That<br> even if you are asking a question you would still tend to use<br> {ja'} or {jatlh}.<br><br>MO: Yes. "He asked me. He said,'blah, blah, blah'." Or "He said,<br> 'blah, blah, blah.' He asked me." It doesn't matter.<br><br>WM: {jang} - "answer" would be similar?<br><br>MO: Yes.<br><br>WM: And {tlhob} would similarly be...<br><br>MO: {tlhob} also has the non-quoting sense.<br><br> [....]<o:p></o:p></span></font></p></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>The Power Klingon examples seem to contradict the HolQeD conversation, don't they? PK doesn't have: {jang 'avwI'. jatlh <<jI'oj je>>}, which is what MO was suggesting, right?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p></div></div></div></div></body></html>_______________________________________________
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