tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Sep 01 01:55:11 2010
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Re: gha'tlhIq
Many thanks for your improvments. I did wonder if I was using jaj correctly.
I think all those "-bogh noun 'ej -bogh" constructs of mine added complexity
and reduced clarity.
The canon in KGT p82 for describing colour has:
"*SuDqu'* ("very SuD") which would probably be described as "green"..."
I wanted to be precise in describing the hue.
This page also provided a construct for expressing a noun with two states or
qualities at the same time:
"To describe yellow tea... one must say *SuD Dargh 'ej wow* ("The tea is *SuD*
and light") or *SuDbogh Dargh 'ej wovbogh* ("The tea that is *SuD* and
light")."
I like the way you mixed the adjective and relative clause. It seems clearer
to me. I wasn't sure you could do that given the above canon.
I don't agree I meant to say the day (which is long) and the morning (which is
hot), though.
Using the yellow tea example I have *nI'bogh pem 'ej tujbogh* to describe the
day as both long and hot.
Would *tujbogh pem nI'* be clearer?
However, this long and hot day is only an allusion to the term "midsummer". Is
there a better way to describe midsummer?
I'm aware of *yoHbogh matlhbogh je SuvwI'* from the anthem, would this
construction be better?
I believe the whole relative clause acts as a noun-phrase, and thus usable in
a noun-noun construct.
e.g. *tujbogh pem nI' po*
Is this belief incorrect?
No idea if whatever the Vogon found there was slimy or not (didn't look too
closely ;). Although I like describing things as such I can get rid of the
extra descriptive here. I'm pretty sure they don't exude actual window
adhesive, that'd be far too useful.
Maybe I should go with *'IqnaH QaD*, but I still want to describe it as green.
How would you express this concept?
Would *SuDqu'bogh 'IqnaH QaD* work?
I was very unsure of the positioning of the *DochHom* phrase in relation to
the *vItu'pu'bogh*, I found myself confused by the examples in TKD and in
relating them to the sentence I was constructing. The *DochHom* is indeed what
was found.
Is there a place where relative clause examples are better explained?
I like the explicit marking of the object with 'e'. Should have thought of
that myself.
All those *-bogh*'s were getting to me. When I realised we needed another on
the verb *bop*, I decided to seek expert assistance before my brain exploded
into lumps of green putty.
Thanks,
mupwI'
On Wednesday 01 September 2010 02:00:57 you wrote:
> The pieces of this are really nice, but the word order could use some
> attention. DochHom is the direct object of vItu'bogh, right? But you
> placed it after the verb instead of in front of it. And if you are using
> SuD as an adjective for DochHom, you don't want -bogh on it, and the
> translation gives no justification for adding -qu'.
>
> So, just making those changes, you get:
>
> nI'bogh jaj 'ej tujbogh po...
>
> But there's another problem already. You have used the conjunction for two
> sentences between two noun phrases. Relative clauses don't really work as
> sentences. What you really mean here is: "the day (which is long) and the
> morning (which is hot). Two nouns, not two sentences.
>
> There's a semantic problem, too. The day is 24 hours long, be it summer or
> winter. You don't want jaj. You want pem.
>
> nI'bogh pem po tuj...
>
> On a hot morning of a long daytime... The morning belongs to the day. They
> are not equals to be merely listed. They have a relationship, a hierarchy.
> No conjunction needed.
>
> 'I'wIjDaq charbogh DochHom'e' SuD vItu'bogh bop gha'tlhIqvam.
>
> The little thing is the topic of the ode, right? With a string of words
> that long, it might be good to mark it as such, explicitly.
>
> I don't tend to think of putty as slimy, but I'll bow to your expertise on
> this.
>
> lojmIt tI'wI'nuv
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Aug 31, 2010, at 5:30 PM, Jeremy Silver <[email protected]>
wrote:
> > There is another slashdot discussion, this time concerning the article
> > voragh mentioned.
> >
> > http://idle.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=10/08/30/1328253
> >
> > In this discussion one joker, issued a challenge:
> > "Time for someone to really get their geek on and translate "Ode To A
> > Small Lump Of Green Putty I Found In My Armpit One Midsummer Morning"."
> >
> > Normally I throw something together and post away, but this time the best
> > I could come up with is pretty complicated and difficult for me to think
> > through:
> >
> > nI'bogh jaj 'ej tujbogh po, 'I'wIjDaq vItu'pu'bogh SuDqu'bogh DochHom 'ej
> > charbogh bop gha'tlhIq
> >
> > The ode of respect is about a small green and slimy thing I found in my
> > armpit, on a morning of a day which is long and hot.
> >
> >
> > Could the more experienced grammarians decipher the above as what I
> > intended? Were there any glaring grammatical blunders?
> > Could you suggest improvements or constructs from your own translations
> > or ways to re-cast?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > mupwI'