tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Jul 28 10:29:10 2010

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RE: 'u': the first authentic Klingon opera on earth

David Trimboli ([email protected]) [KLI Member] [Hol po'wI']

jatlhpu' Felix:
> ghItlhta' SuStel:
>> This is an old argument, and I'm pleased to see that Marc didn't
>> English this. One more piece of evidence that a verb's arguments and
>> its prefix must agree.

> Interesting that you view this as an Anglicism; I've often seen it as
> more of a benefit of the prefix system, being able to specify first-
> and second-person subjects in an efficient - albeit not always
> unambiguous - way. However, there are some indications that it is that
> you say, for instance the proverb Hem tlhIngan Segh 'ej maHemtaH 'e'
> wIHech. {The Klingon race [third-person] is proud, and we intend that
> we intend going on being proud.}

> I personally try to avoid it, but whenever possible I try to put the
> addressee of my statements on the "correct" side of the predicate,
> e.g. if I want to say "I salute you, SuStel", I prefer to say SuStel
> qavan rather than qavan SuStel; both are correct (TKD p.58), but by
> using the forme rather than the latter I make absolutely sure that
> nobody interprets this as "I, SuStel, salute you", no matter their
> stance on this issue.

You may be mixing up direct address and apposition. "We Terrans are
ready to perform a battle-opera" (to paraphrase the quotation) uses
apposition to link "we" and "Terrans." Klingon occasionally uses
apposition, but it has never expressed this English apposition with a
disagreeing verb prefix and argument. {may' ghe'naQ lumuchrup
tera'nganpu'} is simply, "Terrans are ready to present a battle-opera."
The Klingon does not express the "we = Terrans" part of the English at
all.

Direct address, on the other hand, has nothing to do with verb prefixes.
In {qavan, SuStel/SuStel, qavan}, the verb's object is an elided "you,"
not "SuStel." Direct address makes it obvious that SuStel = you, but the
verb prefix only agrees with the subject and object, not the addressee.
Consider: {mura' la'pu', qaH} "the commander ordered me, sir"; {qaH,
qughDuj Qaw'pu' toQDuj} "sir, the bird of prey damaged the cruiser";
{moHneS QuchlIj, qaH} "your forehead is ugly, sir."

To prevent people from misinterpreting your sentences, just add some
punctuation.

The prefix trick is different again from all of these. It uses the
prefix to indicate subject and *indirect* object, and only under certain
circumstances.

-- 
SuStel
http://www.trimboli.name/

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