tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Dec 01 12:04:56 2009
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RE: need vs. obligation
[email protected] wrote:
>> Does tlhIngan Hol differentiate between "to need" and "to have to"? So
>> far I haven't been able to find anything like the latter. I am aware of
>> the suffix {-nIS} being translated as both... but given that most
>> languages I've studied have different means of expressing either, I'm
>> hesitant to throw it all under {-nIS}... unless that's the Klingon way,
>> of course.
Christopher Doty:
>Hrm... Not sure there is much meaning difference between "need" and
>"must", and languages do weird stuff in this area (Modern Nahuatl, for
>example, doesn't HAVE a way to say that you need/must do something,
>except for a (poor) calque from Spanish, which speakers themselves
>never use). You could say something like "I am commanded"
>(<vI'ra'lu'>) is you needed to make it clear that one outside yourself
>was imposing the obligation?
Okrand has translated {-nIS} "need, needs to, must" as "have to" on a couple of occasions.
{-nIS} in canon:
KGT 180f.: For example, if both {-nIS} ("need") and {-bej} ("certainly") occur in the same word, {-nIS} must always precede {-bej}, as in {maSopnISbej} ("We certainly need to eat"). Putting the suffixes in the wrong order, as in {maSopbejnIS}, produces an unacceptable form ... For instance, one cannot use {-nIS} ("need"), as in {maSopnIS} ("We need to eat") and {-rup} ("ready"), as in {maSoprup} ("We are ready to eat"), in the same word ... Saying {maSoprupnIS} or {maSopnISrup} is as impossible to a Klingon speaker as saying "talked" or "talkeds" would be to a speaker of Federation Standard.
st.k 11/97: Since {-moH} is a Type 4 suffix, if a suffix of Type 1, 2, or 3 is to be used (such as {-chuq} "each other" [Type 1] or {-nIS} "need" [Type 2]), it would precede the Type 4 {-moH}; for example ... {pujnISmoH} "he/she needs to weaken [somebody]" ... The Rover {-be'} comes right after whatever it is negating. Both {Qochbe'nIS} "he/she/they need to not disagree" (that is, "he/she/they need to agree") and {QochnISbe'} "he/she/they do not need to disagree" are acceptable Klingon formations... Thus, finally and at long last, to answer your first specific question, say {vIchennISmoH} for "I need to create it".
vIleghnIS
I need to see him/her. TKD
bISopnIS
You need to eat. TKD
bIleSnIS
You need a rest. TKD
De''e' vItlhapnISpu'
I needed to get the INFORMATION.
It was the information (and not something else) I needed. TKD
lupwI' DalIghnIS
You must ride the jitney. CK
Qel vISamnIS
I need to find a doctor. CK
vaj Dargh wIb DatlhutlhnIS
Then you need to drink sour tea. CK
vagh rep bImejnIS
Check-out time is five A.M. CK
tIqlIj Da'angnIS
You must show your heart. PK
DaH jIbwIj vISay'nISmoH
I must wash my hair now. PK
DungDaq legh 'ej QotnIStaH romuluSngan be'pu'
Romulan women belong on their backs! (ST5 notes)
DIHIvlaHtaHvIS DaH DIHIvnIS
Attack them now, while we still can! ST6
qaghochnISlaH (?)
I could trace [for you] ST6
poSDaq nIHDaq je QamtaHvIS SuvwI'pu', chaH jojDaq yItnIS lopwI'
The initiate must pass through a gauntlet of warriors. S9
mataHmeH maSachnIS
To survive, we must expand. TKW
pIpyuS pach DaSop DaneHchugh pIpyuS puS DaghornIS
If you want to eat pipius claw, you'll have to break a few pipiuses. TKW
bISutlhnISchugh jaghlI' mInDu' tIbej
If you must negotiate, watch your enemy's eyes. TKW
nIteb SuvnIS DevwI'
A leader must stand alone ("A leader must fight alone"). TKW
ghob tIvnISbe'lu'
One need not enjoy virtue.
TKW 48: The Klingon construction {tIvnISbe'} means "does not need to enjoy"; "tIvbe'nIS would mean "needs to not enjoy", an utterly different concept.
bIQapqu'meH tar DaSop 'e' DatIvnIS
To really succeed, you must enjoy eating poison. TKW
tIqwIj Sa'angnIS
I must show you my heart. TKW
yInlu'taH 'e' bajnISlu'
Survival must be earned. TKW
yay chavlu' 'e' bajnISlu'
Victory must be earned. TKW
batlh Heghlu'chugh noDnISbe' vay'
An honorable death requires no vengeance. TKW
qachuHnIS'a'
Must I hurl a spear at you?
(i.e. "Do I have to clarify it for you?") KGT
qaleghnIS
I need to see you. KGT
maSopnISbej
We certainly need to eat. KGT
jaghpu' mo' wIyajnIS
We must understand the enemies' motive. (slang) KGT
pujnISmoH
he/she needs to weaken [somebody] (st.k 11/97)
Qochbe'nIS
he/she/they need to not disagree ("he/she/they need to agree") (st.k 11/97)
QochnISbe'
he/she/they do not need to disagree (st.k 11/97)
vIchennISmoH
I need to create it (st.k 11/97)
See also the verbs {'ut} "be essential, be necessary":
'utbe' bel
Pleasure is nonessential. TKW
and tbe' bel Pleasure is nonessential. TKW (cf. 'ut, neH & poQ)
{poQ} "demand, require":
muSuvbogh DoS vIpoQ
I need a target that fights back. ST5
qab legh 'e' poQ
He/she demands to see a face [challenge to a duel] KGT
loHwI' vISuch 'e' vIpoQ
I demand to see the magistrate! (ENT "Affliction")
and {neH} "want"
[too many examples to quote now]
>> Dogh chu' 'e'. (To be new is to be foolish?)
>
><chu'lu'chegh Doghlu'>
bIchu'chugh (vaj) bIDogh.
--
Voragh
Canon Master of the Klingons