tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Feb 26 06:31:04 2007

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Re: tlhingan-hol Digest V4 #56

Doq ([email protected])



I'm trying to remain concise, since rambling critiques dillute  
whatever meaning they have among the excessive verbage. Forgive me  
for editing toward that goal. I will try to avoid deleting anything  
meaningful or important.

On Feb 26, 2007, at 7:16 AM, Agnieszka Solska wrote:

>
>> From: Doq <[email protected]>
>
>> Enough arguing. Show me how you say, "I have served you for the past
>> year." It is a simple sentence. You have shown me that you have the
>> skill to shoot down my suggestion.
>> Show me that you have skill enough
>> to offer your own.
>
> But I already gave you my translation! Here is the relevant  
> fragment of my
> message:
> ---------------------------------------------
> From: "Agnieszka Solska" <[email protected]>
> Subject: Topic (was: Re: Dilbert Comic in Klingon for February 9,  
> 2007)
> Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 16:02:40 +0000
>
> (...), to indicate
> duration in "I have served you for the past year"
> I would use {qaStaHvIS} (...) and say either
>
>    {qaStaHvIS wa' DIS qatoy'taH} or
>    {qatoy'taH qaStaHvIS wa' DIS}

That doesn't mean "I have served you for the past year." It means "I  
am serving you for a year." Maybe last year. Maybe next year. Maybe  
we're in the middle of the year. Maybe it happened a decade ago.  
Maybe it will happen a decade from now. I repeat the requested  
translation: "I have served you for the past year."

> I'm sure you noticed that fragment since you commented on it:
> ---------------------------------------------
> From: Doq <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: Topic (was: Re: Dilbert Comic in Klingon for February  
> 9, 2007)
> Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 15:44:57 -0500
>
> Well, there is the small matter of not knowing whether you are
> talking about last year, next year, or a period one year long that
> occurred fifty years ago or will occur fifty years from now. {DIS}
> has no time stamp. It is only a duration.
> ---------------------------------------------
>
> Since Klingon has no category of tense, the problem of the time  
> reference
> might be resolved by
> 1. context and/or common knowledge of the participants of the exchange

So, show a conversation where that kind of shared knowledge or  
context would apply. Show a concrete example instead of a vague,  
abstract suggestion.

> 2. adding the point of reference to the statement, as in :
>
>   wa'ben qatoy'choH 'ej qaStaHvIS wa' DIS qatoy'taH.
>
> 'ISqu'

That's the kind of awkward work-around I was trying to avoid. If it  
really is the best that any expert here can manage, I guess it's what  
we are stuck with. Someone should point this out to Okrand. I doubt  
he'd be satisfied with it once it came to his notice.

Ask him how to translate "I've served you for the past year," then  
give him a year or two to think about it before answering.

Doq





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