tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu Apr 27 09:13:49 2006
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Re: Klingon WOTD: Qup (verb)
Voragh:
> >Style note:
> >I think {Qup} and {qan} refer exclusively to people, while {chu'} and
> >{ngo'} are for things. Others may disagree.
QeS:
>Nevertheless, as some may have already noticed, my email signature contains
>the Klingon phrase {Hemey ngo' juppu' ngo' je}, the translation of an Ubykh
>proverb that literally means "Old roads and old friends will never deceive
>you". Obviously {juppu'} "friends" would normally use {qan}. However, I have
>used {ngo'} (on the suggestion of one of the other {po'wI'pu'}) in order to
>imply that it is the age of the *friendship* that is important; {juppu' qan}
>"old friends" implies "old people who are friends", opposed to {juppu' Qup}
>"young friends", i.e. "young people who are friends", which does not conform
>to the sense of the original proverb.
>
>This understanding of {ngo'} and {qan} is not canon, and is merely my own
>interpretation of the sense. YMMV.
I would understand your usage and it does make logical sense - in English -
but does it actually work that way in Klingon? Just to play Fek'lhr's
Advocate for a moment, let me point out that all examples of {chu'} and
{ngo'} we've seen refer to "objects or ideas", not people:
He chu' yIghoS
Follow a new course! (TKD)
He chu' ghoS! DIvI' neHmaH.
New course. Federation neutral zone. (ST3)
qaSDI' nenghep, qa' patlh chu' chav tlhIngan SuvwI'
The Age of Ascension marks a new level of spiritual attainment by a
Klingon warrior. (S9)
Hov leng De' chu'
Star Trek Update (STC)
DIvI' tamey ngo'
Federation Archives (STC)
janmey ngo' lulo'lu'DI' pIj jabbI'ID nISpu' woj
Older models were susceptible to radiation. (S19)
ngo'
It is old. (KLS)
ngo'; QI'tu' rur
old as Qui'Tu (KGT)
Okrand actually comments on the distinction in KGT (p.130):
The word {ngo'} in the phrase above means "old" as opposed to "new".
Thus, it would be applied to objects or ideas, but not to animals
or people. To say that a person is extremely old, the phrase would
be {qan; QI'tu' rur} ("He/she is as old as Qui'Tu")." (KGT 130)
I certainly agree it's plausible but as we both know, languages aren't
always logical. Indeed, Klingon makes a sharp distinction between people
("beings capable of using language") vs. things: e.g. pronouns, plural
suffixes, possessive suffixes. Why not qualities?
(Hmm... Re-reading Okrand's comment, I just noticed that {qan} - and
presumably {Qup} - can be used WRT animals. This surprises me since
usually animals are, grammatically at least, considered objects by
Klingons. {yIvoq 'ach yI'ol}! Unless you're Maltz, I guess it's always
better to look at the evidence rather than rely on one's Sprachgefuehl.)
--
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons