tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu Apr 13 19:28:02 2006
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Re: mangpu' or negh?
- From: "QeS 'utlh" <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: mangpu' or negh?
- Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 12:27:48 +1000
- Bcc:
ghItlhpu' Shane MiQogh, ja':
>Let's not forget "-vIp" would be a verb or perhaps a noun in any
>other language
There's your cultural bias showing again. {{:) In some Australian languages,
there is a special noun case called the "aversive", which translates the
English phrase "for fear of" or "in order to avoid": Walmatjari
/tjurtu-karrarla/ "for fear of the dust storm". Any construction that seems
weird in Klingon is probably parallelled, or even out-weirded, by something
in some other language.
What's wrong with having "be afraid of" as only a verb suffix rather than a
full verb? It makes sense: normally, you're not just afraid in general,
you're afraid *of* something. If that something is a noun, then you use the
verb {ghIj}: {DughIj targh} "the targ scares you, you're afraid of the
targ". If that something is a verb, then you use the suffix {-vIp}:
{tlhIngan Dargh tlhutlhvIp} "he's afraid to drink Klingon tea". In English,
we can't even say that we're afraid of something represented by a verb; we
have to turn the verb into a nominalisation or infinitive first.
>and also is modified by the rovers.
Yes, but you can't say *{vIpbe'} "he is not afraid"; {-vIp} has to be
chained to a verb. That's why it's a suffix, not a word.
>I'm talking about writing based on what we say... Tell me... How do
>you propose we say the suffixes as the same word, rather than
>seperate words that come after the verb or noun? I'm sure it would
>sound as seperate words...
Or as one long word, depending upon your point of view.
>Requiring our klingon experience to tell us where the word ends.
That's the case in *any* language. Any utterance, in any language, from
Japanese to Ubykh to English to Klingon, is normally composed of one long
string of sounds.
Whyshouldwenotwriteoursentenceslikethisbecausethisishowwewouldsayitwhenspeakingoutloud?
To distinguish words in speech, our minds often depend upon suprasegmental
cues like stress, metre and intonation to distinguish individual word
boundaries. Klingon is no different, although the low rate of homophony and
the limited syllable structure of Klingon certainly make it a lot easier to
distinguish word boundaries by segmental, as well as suprasegmental, means.
QeS 'utlh
tlhIngan Hol yejHaD pabpo' / Grammarian of the Klingon Language Institute
not nItoj Hemey ngo' juppu' ngo' je
(Old roads and old friends will never deceive you)
- Ubykh Hol vIttlhegh
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