tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Oct 13 12:51:42 2004
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Re: -be'lu' vs. -lu'be'
QuvlIjDaq yIH tu'be'lu'jaj
May your coordinates be free of tribbles! PK
Quvar:
>Not to be nitpicky too ;-) but taking this correctly, the english
>translation should be "May there be NO single tribble in your coordinates".
>More than one tribble would need the lu-prefix: {lutu'be'lu'jaj}
>
>But yes, Marc Okrand has explained in KGT 168-172 that this prefix is
>sometimes omitted, perhaps this is one of these cases ;-)
When it comes to {tu'lu'} the prefix is almost *always* omitted. In fact,
there are no examples from Okrand with {lutu'lu'} used with a plural
noun. All use just {tu'lu'}:
naDev tlhInganpu' tu'lu'
There are Klingons around here. TKD
naDev cha'maH cha' joQDu' tu'lu'
There are twenty-two ribs here. KGT
DujvamDaq tlhIngan nuH tu'lu'bogh pov law' Hoch pov puS 'ej DujvamDaq
'op SuvwI' tu'lu'bogh po' law' tlhIngan yo' SuvwI' law' po' puS
It [IKV Pagh] has the best weapons and some of the finest warriors in
the Klingon fleet. S7
SuvwI'pu' qan tu'lu'be'
There are no old warriors. TKW
reH nuHmey tu'lu'
There are always weapons. KCD
cha' choQmey naQ tu'lu' 'ej tep choQ bIngDaq lo' law' bID choQ tu'lu'
2 Full Decks and a Half Utility Deck under the Cargo Deck (KBoP)
Okrand never actually says this, but I like to think of {tu'lu'} "there is,
there are" as a sort of frozen expression or unconjugated autonomous phrase.
In English, too, "there is" - more often the contracted form "there's" - is
sometimes heard with a plural noun in colloquial or uneducated speech. Qov
calls {lutu'lu'} "the Klingon version of 'whom'," meaning a technically
correct grammatical form which has virtually disappeared in contemporary
speech. In fact, "whom" - and, likely, {lutu'lu'} - is only used today by
hyper-correct or pedantic speakers. ("Whom" is more accepted in writing,
however.)
But getting back to Klingon, Okrand ends the section on "Common Errors: The
Case of {lu-}" with:
Klingon grammarians refer to the rule that governs the use of
pronominal prefixes as the rule of {rom} (literally, "accord").
Grammarians of Federation Standard and many Earth languages call
the phenomenon "agreement." Thus, in the case of Klingon, the
prefix used must "agree" with the noun to which it refers; if
the object noun is plural, for example, the prefix must be one
that is used with plural objects.
His next sentence, though, is something those of us who like to nit-pick
should always keep in mind:
Agreeing is not a trait typically associated with Klingon nature,
however, and apparently, at least under certain circumstances,
this may extend to grammar as well. [KGT 172]
--
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons