tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Feb 25 17:47:01 2004
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[tlhIngan-Hol] Re: tlhIngan-Hol Digest 25 Feb 2004
- From: "QeS lagh" <[email protected]>
- Subject: [tlhIngan-Hol] Re: tlhIngan-Hol Digest 25 Feb 2004
- Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 11:46:20 +1000
- Bcc:
jIghItlh:
> >Yes, but it's human languages that resemble Klingon in most cases, not
>the
> >other way around.
ghItlh Quvar:
>huh? chay' pIm?
Sorry, my semantics are a little weird. But the way I see it, any features
that Klingon shares with Terran languages are caused by the oddities of the
*Terran languages*, not because of the way *Klingon* was designed. That's
what I meant. (OVS word order, for instance, and a really really weird
phoneme set.)
jIghItlhtaH:
> >'ach tlhIngan HolvaD mu' qIDmey nob Human Holmey law': *Spanish* Hol,
> >*Mandarin* Hol, DIvI' Hol je.
> >But many human languages have contributed vocabulary to Klingon: Spanish,
> >Mandarin and English, to name a few.
ghItlhtaH Quvar:
>among them also German, Japanese, Yiddish, ...
lugh'a'? vISovbe'pu'. 'ach <<DaS>>'e' vIQub. :)
Also French... (there's a legend going around that <<moD>> "to hurry" was
based on the name of the musical group Depeche Mode, and "depeche" is a form
of the French verb "depecher", meaning "to hurry". As I recall, Dr Okrand
couldn't recall whether this was in fact the case, but said that it was
entirely possible.)
ghItlhtaH Quvar:
>{mu' qIDmey} is sort of "puns", not "vocabulary" {mu'tay'}.
>And now we need to distinguish. Of course Marc Okrand has been inspired
>from other languages to
>create Klingon words, but *in the game*, there is not a single word coming
>from Earth (except for
>qa'vIn and the like)
This is as I intended. I was referring to "outside the game", as you put it.
:) Many words and their meanings have been taken from other languages. From
a Terran point of view, it's almost another entire game in itself trying to
work out where some of these things might have come from.
> >wot DoS, ghIq wot, ghIq wot vangwI' - tIghvam lulo' Human Hol law'. ('ach
> >Hoch mu'tlheghDaq lulo' Hol puSqu' - lo' *Hixkaryana* Hol).
> >Many human languages also use some form of Object-Verb-Subject word
>order.
> >(Only a couple use it as the default, though.)
>
>There are only six (6, yes, no more) possibilities to order O,V,S. The
>Klingon Object-Verb-Subject is
>one of the least used on earth, I guess that's why MO chose it, to have a
>more alien touch.
'e' vISov:
vangwI', DoS, wot = *Turkish* Hol, *Japanese* Hol je
vangwI', wot, DoS = *French* Hol DIvI' Hol je
wot, vangwI', DoS = *Irish* Hol *Egyptian* ngo' Hol je
wot, DoS, vangwI' = *Malagasy* Hol
DoS, wot, vangwI' = tlhIngan Hol *Hixkaryana* Hol je
DoS, vangwI', wot = *Apurina* Hol, *Xavante* Hol je
For some reason, all combinations where the object comes before the subject
are rare.
But Latin can use basically any word order; so can Basque, Kabardian, and
many other languages which are inflected for case. (English, for instance,
can use OSV word order in emphatic sentences (in spoken language, at least):
"And you I just don't know about!", and VSO in questions: "Was that the man
you hit?")
I was just making the point that OVS is only rare as a *default* order; that
is, the order in which an unemphatic declarative sentence comes in.
> >qech vIghaj je, 'ach lughchu' 'e' vISovbe'. Human Segh 'oSmeH mojaq [-pu]
> >lo' *Nez Perce* Hol. tlhIngan Hol chenmoHtaHvIS Marc Okrand, ngIp
>tlhIngan
> >Hol 'e' boHar'a'?
>
>Maybe, maybe not. Sometimes words resemble others just by accident, like I
>found out the hebrew word
>for {Hov} is *qoHav* - coincidence? ;-)
luq. I was just wondering, because I know that Dr Okrand has had some
extensive experience with the languages of the western USA.
>
> >By the way, does everyone understand what I mean by <<wot DoS>> (direct
> >object) and <<wot vangwI'>> (subject)? I wanted to get a fairly concise
>and
> >accurate translation of the ideas, since we don't have grammatical terms
>for
> >such things yet.
>
>{DoS} is used frequently as "object"
qatlho'qu'. DaH jIbItbe'choHlaH. {{:)
Savan.
QeS lagh
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