tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Feb 11 17:05:04 2004
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Re: DCKL translation question: argueing arguments
ghel Quvar:
>dispute v. (argue) ghoH.
>
>Is this meant in a negative or in a positive sense?
{ghoH} "argue, dispute"
What's the difference? (And if there is one for humans, would Klingons
feel the same way? I imagine a Klingon disputation would be considerably
more aggressive that what humans are used to! <g>)
>My translation works lead me to a negative meaning, but then I saw seen a
>sentence apparently by marc
>okrand saying that Klingons {ghoH} at the qep'a'. I suppose you have not
>been not fighting over there,
>so this "argueing" is more in the sense of "talking, discussing, argueing
>a specific topic"
Here's what Okrand wrote to SuStel about his visit to {qep'a' wejDIch} on
the newsgroup msn.onstage.startrek.expert.okrand (November 10, 1996):
qep'a' wejDIchDaq jatlhtaH tlhIngan Hol HaDwI'pu'.
ghoHtaH je. tIv'eghtaH je. vaj SuquvmoH.
This is the only example of {ghoH} in canon. Okrand clearly enjoyed seeing
Klingon vigorously used at the qep'a'. (This may have been the first one
he attended IIRC.) So I would say that there are no inherently negative
overtones implied.
>It's not "having arguments", that would be {Sol} right?
If I understand you, yes. {Sol} is "quarrel" which (of course!) has never
been used in canon.
Note also the idiom {jop 'ej way'} "have an argument", which Okrand
describes in KGT (p.115):
This idiom, which means "have an argument," is based on movements
associated with the bat'leth. During the course of a bout, both
parties, among other things, alternately lunge ({jop}), that is,
push the bat'leth toward the opponent, and deflect ({way'}), or
use the bat'leth to push the oncoming one away. Each side, then,
engages in both offensive and defensive movements, and this
alternation of roles is likened to a verbal duel. In using the
expression, the appropriate verbal affixes are attached; for
example, {wIjoppu' 'ej wIway'pu'} ("We have lunged and we have
deflected"--that is, "We have had an argument"). If the two verbs
are reversed ({way' 'ej jop} ["deflect and lunge"]), the idea of
"have an argument" is not present, though the phrase is perfectly
well formed if referring to a bat'leth bout.
Other argumentative words include {qap} "insist" and {poQ} "demand".
--
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons