tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Fri Aug 20 05:50:51 2004

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pagh (Re: Klingon WOTD: toy'wI''a' (n))

MorphemeAddict ([email protected]) [KLI Member] [Hol taghwI']

In a message dated 2004-08-19 1:49:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
[email protected] writes:

> Voragh:
> > >> DIHIvbej [pagh] qo'chajDaq toy'wI''a' DImoj. (??)
> > >> Attack or be slaves in their world.  ST6
> 

[clipped]

> ghunchu'wI':
> > > I think this is more likely to be {DIHIvbe'chugh qo'chajDaq...}
> 
> But I like your suggestion better.  I guess I just wanted to use the 
> conjunction {pagh} "or, or else, either/or".
> 
> lay'tel:
> >It definitely *sounds* more Okrandian with {-chugh}.  As far as I can tell,
> >Okrand has never used {pagh} in this sense of "or (else)".
> 
>    bISoptaH pagh bItlhutlhtaH
>    You are either eating or else you are drinking. TKD
> 
>    taH pagh taHbe'
>    "To be or not to be." ST6/KGT
> 
>    taQ pagh taQbe'
>    To be weird or not to be weird. KGT (p.194)
> 
>    HeghDI' tlhIngan SuvwI' pagh tlhIngan SuvwI' HoHlu'DI'
>    When a Klingon warrior dies or is killed... S31
> 
>    vIpollaH pagh vIpolHa'laH
>    I can either keep it or I can discard it. KGT
> 
>    DapollaH pagh DapolHa'laH
>    You can either keep it or you can discard it. KGT
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Voragh

jIQIj 'e' vInIDta'DI' vIvonlu'pu'.  

In all of these examples, it doesn't matter which option comes first.  The 
{pagh} relation is symmetric.  The line from ST6 expresses a relation of cause 
and effect.  However, if the line has {pagh}, then its relation is not 
symmetric.  Attacking is given as a means of avoiding subjugation.  If the two clauses 
are reversed and subjugation is assumed, then attacking is irrelevant.  
None of the other examples of {pagh} exhibit this kind of asymmetry and 
causal relation, but such relations with {-chugh} are numerous. 

lay'tel SIvten

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