tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Fri May 23 15:48:05 2003
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Re: tlhobqa'qu' taghwI'
> >That's what got me onto the idea of replacing parts of the
> >noun-noun construct with <<nuq>>. (Incidentally: Voragh, is there canon
> >support for replacing the *first* noun of a noun-noun construct with
> ><<nuq>> or <<'Iv>> (eg. <<'Iv
>
> None that I know of.
>
> >Ha'DIbaH>> "whose animal?", or is recasting necessary for that too?)
>
> I personally don't greatly object to *{'Iv Ha'DIbaH} and understand what is
> meant when I see it, but many on this list do. (You can check the list
> archives for the extensive and somewhat tedious discussion.) Without it,
> though, I can't think of any simple way of asking "Whose animal is this?"
>
> If you're trying to make sense of how this works, remember that {nuq},
> {'Iv} and {nuqDaq} are not pronouns in Klingon as they can often be in
> English, but only question words. Since they're not pronouns, they can't
> replace another noun in the sentence (which is what pronouns do). And so,
> while you can say {Qugh Ha'DIbaH} "Kruge's animal, the animal of Kruge",
> you can't properly say *{'Iv Ha'DIbaH} "whose animal, the animal of
> who(m)?"
>
> On the other hand - in studying Klingon you will find that there is
> almost always "another hand"! - Okrand has written:
>
> Question words (in this case, {nuq} "what?") function the same way
> pronouns do in questions with "to be" in the English translations.
> Thus, the question {yIH nuq?} "What is a tribble?" is exactly parallel
> to the statement {yIH 'oH} "It is a tribble" ...
> (startrek.klingon)
TKD also says:
>>>
For {'Iv} <who?> and {nuq} <what?> the question word fits into the
sentence in the position that would be occupied by the
answer. For example:
{yaS legh 'Iv} <Who sees the officer?>
{'Iv legh yaS} <Whom does the officer see?>
In the first question, it is the subject which is being asked
about, so {'Iv} <who?> goes in the subject position, following the
verb {legh} <he/she sees him/her.> In the second case, the object is
being questioned, so the question word goes in the object
position, before the verb.
Similarly with {nuq} <what?:>
{Duj ghoStaH nuq} <What is coming toward the ship?>
({Duj} <ship, vessel,> {ghoStaH} <it is
proceeding toward it>)
{nuq legh yaS} <What does the officer see?>
Both {'Iv} and {nuq} are treated as nouns as far as the
pronominal prefixes are concerned. That is, they are consid-
ered third person.
{nughoStaH nuq} <What is coming toward us?> ({nughoStaH} <it
is proceeding toward us>)
{nuq Dalegh} <What do you see?> ({Dalegh} <you see it>)
<<<
So in /'Iv taj Dalegh?/, /'Iv/ is put where the answer would be.
HoD taj vIlegh
> Perhaps {mI'lIj nuq?} is the proper way to
> say "What is your number?", while {nuq mI'lIj?} sounds more like "What's
> your number?" or "Your number's what?")
As already quoted, certain question words can act as "to be".
/mI'lIj nuq/, there's no verb so /nuq/ is the so-called verb, making /mI'lIj/
the object, "What is your number?"
/nuq mI'lIj/, there's no verb so again /nuq/ is the so-called verb, but
now /mI'lIj/ is in the subject place, "Your number is what?"
DloraH