tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Jul 30 10:45:05 2003
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Re: KLBC: The years sometimes teach us what the days never know.
- From: "David Trimboli" <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: KLBC: The years sometimes teach us what the days never know.
- Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 11:41:26 -0400
>From: [email protected]
>
>In a message dated 7/29/2003 9:02:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
>[email protected] writes:
> > ghojmoH is really ghoj + -moH
> >
> > {maHvaD Dochmey'e' Sovbe'bogh jajmey ghojmoH DISmey}
> > "The years cause the things (which days don't know) to learn for us."
> >
> >
> > With the first option:
> > {Dochmey'e' Sovbe'bogh jajmey rut nughojmoH DISmey}
> > we might be able to get away with saying it is an -'e' in the "header"
> > position, "As for things which..."
> >
> > One way to handle the objects of ghoj and ghojmoH is to use multiple
>sentences.
> > "The years teach us (cause us to learn). We learn things which the days
>don't
> > know."
> > /nughojmoH DISmey. Dochmey'e' Sovbe'bogh jajmey DIghoj./
> >
>
> >
> >
> > And now someone will mention the canon:
> > >>>
> > qorDu'Daj tuq 'oS Ha'quj'e' tuQbogh wo'rIv. tuQtaHvIS Hem. ghaHvaD
>quHDaj
> > qawmoH.
> >
> > The sash that Worf wears is a symbol of his family's house. He wears it
>proudly
> > as a reminder of his heritage.
> > <<<
> >
> > and possibly a fight will break out and blood will be
> > spilled... again.
> >
>
>The only reason a fight might break out is because you state
>your opinions about the object of {ghojmoH} as fact rather
>than opinion. The honorable thing to do is simply say, "In
>my opinion..."
Let us not forget the supporting evidence. Marc Okrand has stated that the
verb+suffix entries in TKD were added for the convenience of English
speakers looking up words. Suppose you're looking for "teach." Klingon
doesn't have a root word "teach," but it does have /ghoj/ "learn," and from
that you can construct /ghojmoH/ "cause to learn." So an entry was added,
/ghojmoH/ "teach," purely for the convenience of English speakers.
Given this, the ONLY reason why someone would insist on saying something
like */tlhIngan Hol vIghojmoH/ "I teach Klingon" is because they are
translating poorly in English.
>What happens to transitive verbs and their objects when
>{-moH} is added is indeed a hot topic, and by no means
>as cut-and-dried as DloraH implies. I've spilled much
>blood on this topic myself in the past, but I have come
>to see that this argument is unwinnable by either side
>and that only MO can resolve it. So until we get more
>canon or a definite ruling, I'm not getting sucked into
>any more fights. Either pick a position and use it (but
>recognize that it is only your opinion), or avoid the
>construction altogether.
Let us not forget that the alternatives that DloraH provides are
uncontroversially correct, whereas the example in question is not. It can
only be uncontroversially correct if Okrand says something to make it so.
Given that state of affairs, why on earth wouldn't you want to use a
100%-guaranteed-to-be-correct version?
It is fact, not opinion, that /matlh vIghojmoH; tlhIngan Hol ghoj/ means "I
teach Maltz Klingon." Literally, it says "I cause Maltz to learn; he learns
Klingon." No controversy there.
Only slightly controversial is (*)/tlhIngan Hol'e' matlh vIghojmoH/ "As for
Klingon, I cause Maltz to learn."
Absolutely controversial is */matlhvaD tlhIngan Hol vIghojmoH/ "I cause for
Maltz to learn Klingon(?)."
Again, I ask you: why choose a maybe-not-correct way when you can choose the
definitely-correct way?
SuStel
Stardate 3577.4
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