tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Fri May 18 11:34:59 2001

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RE: When writing Klingon fiction...



Voragh:

> [batlh, quv je chovnatlhmey law' muchlu']

Dojqu'! 

> As I said yesterday, I feel the basic difference is that {quv} refers to
> personal honor or reputation, while {batlh} tends toward honor in general 
> or the abstract.  I freely admit that there does appear to be some 
> overlap: {batlh is sometimes used where I might expect {quv}.  Look at 
> the canon (for all forms of these two words) for yourself and decide...

jIQochbe'chu'. DIpmey vInuD 'ej vIchov...

> {batlh}  honor (n.) 
>
> batlh tlhIngan Segh yIHub 
> Defend the Klingon race with honor. (MO ST5 notes)
>
> batlh qaghojmoHpu' 
> It has been an honor to instruct you. CK 
>
> batlh qaghojmoH 
> It has been an honor to instruct you. PK 

These three uses all appear to be adverbials to me.

> batlh potlh law' yIn potlh puS 
> Honor is more important than life. TKW
>
> batlh qelDI' tlhIngan, lumbe' 
> A Klingon does not postpone a matter of honor. TKW

The <batlh> in both of these examples could be read as either honor as a
general principle or one's personal honor, or both. Note that neither
example is possessive - no <batlhwIj> or <batlhlIj> - and neither talks
explicitly about <batlh> being achieved.

> {quv}  honor (n.)
>
> "Dueling--that is, challenging someone to a fight, usually to the death, 
> over a matter of honor--is a longstanding Klingon practice. ... A duel 
> is preceded by one party issuing a challenge to the other. This is 
> expressed by using the phrase {qabDaj 'ang} (literally, "He/she shows 
> his/her face," referring to the Klingon tenet that a warrior always 
> shows his or her face in battle). ... One accepts a challenge ({qab 
> 'ang} [literally, "shows face"]) in order to prove one's honor ({quv 
> tob} [literally, "test honor conclusively"]). Though any perceived 
> attack on one's honor may prompt one to issue a challenge, in one 
> traditional form of duel, the goal is specifically for a man to "win the
> favor of a women" ({vuv be' 'e' baj} [literally, "earn that a woman 
> respect him"]) by competing with another man." (KGT 67ff)
 
> quvwIj DatIchpu', tera'ngan.
> [You have insulted my honor, Terran.] PK 

> batlhHa' vanglu'taHvIS quv chavbe'lu' 
> One does not achieve honor while acting dishonorably. TKW

> tlhIngan quv DatIchDI' Seng yIghuH 
> When you insult a Klingon's honor, prepare for trouble. TKW

> quv Hutlh HoHbogh tlhIngan 'ach qabDaj 'angbe'bogh 
> A Klingon who kills without showing his face has no honor. TKW

> 'ang'eghQo' quv Hutlhbogh jagh neH ghobtaHvIS ghaH 
> Only an enemy without honor refuses to show himself in battle. TKW 

> SuvwI' quvlIj yIqel! 
> Consider your warrior's honor! (Day of Honor postcard)

Meanwhile, all of these examples refer very clearly to personal honor.
They're all talking about honor as something to be achieved or possessed.

The fact that <batlh> is also an adverbial and <quv> is a stative verb is
another clue. Adverbials apply to actions, and <batlh> used as an adverbial
means that the action was perfomred honorably - in accordance with the
principle of honor. 

Stative verbs describe nouns, and <quv> applied to a noun means that the
noun is honored - he/she/it has achieved a certain measure of honor.

The two concepts are closely related and intertwined, certainly. Personal
honor is achieved by acting honorably: batlh vangchugh vay', quvchoHbej.

pagh Hoch vIchovHa' 'ej jImujchu'.

pagh


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