tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sun Mar 25 20:52:53 2001
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RE: KLBC: Perfect Sangha
- From: "Stauffer, Tad E (staufte7)" <[email protected]>
- Subject: RE: KLBC: Perfect Sangha
- Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 23:51:55 -0500
Robert said:
> Hi,
>
> *yahoo vImuSchoH. wa'Hu' qawHaqwIj luchoHmo' *email vISuqlaHbe'.
>
> [I am coming to hate Yahoo. Yesterday they changed all my account setting
> and I was unable to get my email]
>
maj. No problems with grammar here.
> mughbe'bej *Buddhist Terms 'e' vIQub
>
{mugh} means to "translate", and not "be translated". You could still use
{mugh}, but say "I thought that I couldn't translate Buddhist Terms".
> qatlh vIQub? 'oSwI' 'oH *Sangha'e'.
>
maj.
> pIj *monastic community mugh *Sangha 'ach *monastic community yajHa'laH
> *Europeans.
>
Again, since {mugh} is only the verb "translate", you would have to rephrase
the idea of "Sangha is translated as monastic community". One way to do this
would be:
"In order to translate 'Sangha', one uses 'monastic community'".
If you use this rewording, you'll want to use the verb suffix {-meH} ("in
order to, for the purpose of") and the verb suffix {-lu'} ("indefinite
subject").
Also, since Europeans are "they" and monastic community is "it", you want to
use the verb prefix for "they - it" on {yajHa'laH}. This prefix is {lu-}.
> QIjnISmeH *monastic community yajlu'
>
This means "In order to need to explain, monastic community is understood".
If you switch {QIjnIS} and {yaj}, you will get the meaning that you want:
{yajlu'meH, *monastic community QIjnISlu'} "In order to be understood, one
needs to explain monastic community"
> 'ej qech *European
> Monasticism tungHa'laH *monastic community.
>
{qech *European Monasticism} would mean "European Monasticism of the idea".
So you actually would want to put {qech} after European Monasticism, to mean
"the idea of European Monasticism" or "European Monasticism idea"
> yIqel. QIjnISmeH *Sangha yajlu'
> 'ach qech *European Monasticism tungHa'be' *Sangha.
>
Again, you just need to switch {QIjnIS} and {yaj}, and put {qech} after
European Monasticism. Otherwise, no problems here.
> [I thought that Buddhist Terms were untranslatable. Why did I think that?
> Sangha is an example. Often Sangha is translated as monastic community but
> Europeans can misunderstand this. Monastic community still needs to be
> explained for someone to understand and can encourage ideas of European
> Monasticism. You consider this. Sangha must be explained to be understood
> but it will not encourage ideas of European Monasticism.]
>
[...]
> A few Questions
>
> 1)Couldn't find a word for example, so I used 'oSwI' as thing which
> represents. Have I missed a more obvious choice?
>
As has already been mentioned, {'oSwI'} can work, in certain circumstances.
> 2)Have I used -lu' correctly? I meant to express the idea of being
> understood.
>
Yes, it looks like it to me. If you say {qech yajlu'}, it means that someone
unspecified "understands the idea". So saying that "the idea is understood"
would be another way of translating this into English. Note that when you
use {-lu'}, the verb prefixes may change, as explained on pages 38-39 of
TKD.
> 3)I used a rhetorical question as I wasn't sure how to say "others have
> wondered why I said that". I came up with 'e' vIja 'e' tlhoblu'. This
> seems
> to be close but doesn't really express the why. Any help?
>
SarrIS gave a good explanation and example of how to say this.
- taD
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