tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Jul 25 00:25:49 2001
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RE: Gutturals (was Re: qung "pun")
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Trimboli, David [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 12:43 PM
> To: '[email protected]'
> Subject: RE: Gutturals (was Re: qung "pun")
>
>
> From: Andrew [mailto:[email protected]]
> > Phonotactic constraints? There's a funny thing about Klingon -- even tho
> the
> > sounds are hard to pronounce, it is still quite accommodating to English
> > phonotactics. This is a possible "mistake" on MO's part, due to English
> > bias. German natives (and many other) would actually have phonotactic
> > difficulties with Klingon. (What if MO had been German? How
> would Klingon
> > have sounded to him then?)
>
> I don't think it was a mistake, so much as a design necessity.
> He carefully
> devised Klingon to be correctly pronouncable by English-native actors
> (wearing prosthetic teeth).
Just to pass on the comment, I remember once that Okrand said that he
definitely did NOT make up the phonemes with the prosthetic teeth in mind.
It just turned out to be fortunate that the phonemes worked well with the
teeth. He said this during his story about his practice session with
Christopher Lloyd when the actor sat next to him and started to practice and
then covered his mouth and wide-eyed, exclaimed, "My teeth! I forgot my
teeth!" and ran out of the room.
Okrand felt embarrassed for the actor, thinking that maybe Christopher Lloyd
was toothless and Okrand simply didn't notice when he'd been talking with
him up to this point. He was relieved to learn that he was just talking
about the prosthetic teeth that he was going to have to wear for the movie.
That's when he found out that the phonemes worked fine with the teeth, but
the phonemes came before that practice session and he didn't have to modify
them.
> > I have always wondered whether Klingon has allophones or phonological
> > transformations of any kind. It would be fascinating to talk to
> d'Armond's
> > son to hear if he's developed any in his Klingon. I could have sworn I
> heard
> > him fronting the H in nuqneH on the wav file, but that could
> have been an
> > overzealous hallucination.
>
> At last report, Alec hasn't spoken Klingon in years. d'Armond can surely
> elaborate.
>
> > What about "nIDtaH" or "nuQHom" where you have to actually
> > change articulation point in mid-stream? NO natural language asks you to
> do
> > that.
The first time I saw Okrand live at Stellarcom 16 (I think -- it was before
qep'a' wa'DIch), he was talking about how certain letter combinations in
Klingon were extremely difficult to pronounce. I suggested {rgh} was
difficult, since I rolled my "r" as directed in TKD and found the move from
a tip-of-the-tongue trilled "r" to a back of the throat {gh} difficult,
though Okrand does not, in fact, consistently roll his "r", so for him {rgh}
is easy and he said so. He said that {Dt} or {tD} were much more difficult
because of the shift in tongue position. He didn't mention {QH}.
> One would expect a transformation to "nIdtaH" or "nIDTaH", and
> > "nuQXom" or "nuKHom", respectively. But then again, Klingon
> physiology is
> > different, eh?
>
> A few years back, we had a participant on the list named /SanDar/. She
> reveled in the relative unpronounceability of her name. My own requires
> changing positions, but it's a lot easier to pronounce S-t than it is to
> pronounce n-D: you can slide out of an /S/ without losing the sound.
>
> SuStel
> Stardate 1559.7
If I try to trill the "r" I still find my own name a challenge.
charghwI'