tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Nov 08 20:21:31 2000

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Re: Grammar Highlight Each Day

lab peHruS:
> >To make a noun which refers to a being not capable of language plural, add
> >the suffix -mey.

Hey there.  So far I've read two postings this month, and they've both been
attacks on this perfectly true statement.  

lab ghunchu'wI':
> There is no category defined in Klingon grammar as "a being not capable of
> language".  For the purposes of applying suffixes to indicate plural nouns,
> the categories are "beings capable of language", "body parts", and
> "everything else".  {-mey} is the "everything else" plural suffix.
>
> I've heard it said that the best way to get good information from the
> internet is to say something wrong and get corrected.  Is this the tactic
> being employed by peHruS?  Whether intentional or not, much of what he has
> presented in his "Grammar Highlight" series has been either incorrect or
> confusingly incomplete.

lab Holtej:
> This is not accurate.  Use {-mey} to pluralize a noun that does not refer to
> a being capable of language, and does not refer to body parts.  This suffix
> is not used when pluralizing a noun that refers to a being which is not
> capable of language, as you say.

What you quoted doesn't imply that peHruS had defined a new category.
There is nothing wrong with the statement "to make a noun which refers to a
being not capable of language plural, add the suffix -mey".  A targ is a
being, an 'er is a being.  Their plurals are formed in -mey.  Unless a
non-language using being is simultaneously a body part, there is no
question that its plural is formed in -mey.  

To form the plural of machinery items made underground, add the suffix -mey.
To form the plural of officer ranks in the secret service, add the suffix
-pu'.
To form the plural of body parts below the waist, add the suffix -Du'.

It doesn't have to be the fully-fledged BG diatribe on a particular
grammatical item to be a correct statement, or to be useful to a beginner.
It may help some people to learn to see the material presented from a
different angle.

If you read your mail in ASCII, compare these trees.  

         ----nouns representing beings capable of language 
         |
         |
all nouns---- nouns repr. body parts
         |
         |
         ----- all other nouns

                                  |----- nouns repr. beings cabable of lang.
         -- nouns repr. beings  --|
         |                        |----- nouns repr. beings not cap. of lang.
         |
all nouns|--- nouns representing body parts
         |
         ---- all other nouns

The first is TKD/ghunchu'wI'/Holtej's take on the matter.  The second is
peHruS'.  Granted it's more complex, but maybe he and some of the people he
teaches find it easier to remember.  

If I hadn't spent many hours speaking personally to ghunchu'wI' and Holtej
in tlhIngan Hol, I'd think that they had merely memorized the definitions
and not spoken the language.

peHruS paQDI'norgh naQ vIlaDbe'taHmo' vIpojlaHchu'be'.  As I understand it.
it's meant to be a "tip of the day" sort of thing.  "If the light doesn't
go on when you open the refrigerator door the bulb might be burned out."
True, the fridge might be unplugged, the switch might be stuck, or you
might have had a power failure, but it doesn't mean that it's not a useful
tip.

Qov

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