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Re: TLHINGAN-HOL digest 1014



In a message dated 1/14/99 1:25:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
[email protected] writes:

> Subj:  TLHINGAN-HOL digest 1014
>  Date:    1/14/99 1:25:13 PM Eastern Standard Time
>  From:    [email protected]
>  Sender:  [email protected]
>  Reply-to:    <A HREF="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</A>
>  To:  [email protected] (Multiple recipients of list)
>  
>               TLHINGAN-HOL Digest 1014
>  
>  Topics covered in this issue include:
>  
>    1) Re: Ordering food
>   by "Patrick Masterson" <[email protected]>
>    2) RE: chay' Dochmey vIjatlh?
>   by "Patrick Masterson" <[email protected]>
>    3) RE: Ordering food
>   by "Andeen, Eric" <[email protected]>
>    4) RE: chay' Dochmey vIjatlh?
>   by "Andeen, Eric" <[email protected]>
>    5) Re: KLBC: HovqIj jun Hov wov
>   by [email protected] (Christiane Scharf)
>    6) Re: KLBC: HovqIj jun Hov wov
>   by [email protected] (Christiane Scharf)
>    7) RE: Ordering food
>   by TPO <[email protected]>
>    8) Re: mu'meywIj tetlh
>   by [email protected]
>    9) Re: mu'meywIj tetlh
>   by [email protected]
>   10) Re: Ordering food
>   by [email protected]
>   11) Re: Ordering food
>   by [email protected]
>   12) Re: Ordering food
>   by "K'ryntes" <[email protected]>
>   13) Re: chay' Dochmey vIjatlh?
>   by Alan Anderson <[email protected]>
>   14) Re: qepHomHey
>   by Alan Anderson <[email protected]>
>   15) Re: pIvlaw' tIqwIj
>   by Alan Anderson <[email protected]>
>   16) Re: mu'meywIj tetlh
>   by Alan Anderson <[email protected]>
>   17) Re: ghIQta' ghunchu'wI'
>   by Alan Anderson <[email protected]>
>   18) Re: qa'vIn
>   by Alan Anderson <[email protected]>
>   19) Re: mu'meywIj tetlh
>   by Terry Donnelly <[email protected]>
>   20) Re: mu'meywIj tetlh
>   by Terrence Donnelly <[email protected]>
>   21) HolQeD
>   by Terrence Donnelly <[email protected]>
>   22) Re: mu'meywIj tetlh
>   by "K'ryntes" <[email protected]>
>   23) Re: HolQeD
>   by "K'ryntes" <[email protected]>
>  
>  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>  
>  Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:07:58 PST
>  From: "Patrick Masterson" <[email protected]>
>  To: [email protected]
>  Subject: Re: Ordering food
>  Message-ID: <[email protected]>
>  
>  I would just say "He makes the house white." as 
>  juH chISmoH (ghaH). When I use a phrase like (object) (verb)+moH 
>  (subject) I usually translate it as "(subject) causes (object) to 
>  (verb)", in this case "He causes house to be white." 
>  
>  If I wish to translate "(Subject) causes (object) to (verb) (other 
>  object)," like in "The officer caused the guard to hit the captain.", I 
>  do it like "(other object) with no t5 suffix (object) (verb)+moH 
>  (subject)", so my above sentence would be "HoD 'avwI' qIpmoH yaS" (In 
>  TKD it says if there are other nouns in a sentence they go before the 
>  direct object.)
>  
>  
>  ______________________________________________________
>  Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>  
>  
>  ------------------------------
>  
>  Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:16:58 PST
>  From: "Patrick Masterson" <[email protected]>
>  To: [email protected]
>  Subject: RE: chay' Dochmey vIjatlh?
>  Message-ID: <[email protected]>
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  >Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:38:31 -0800 (PST)
>  >Reply-To: [email protected]
>  >From: "Andeen, Eric" <[email protected]>
>  >To: Multiple recipients of list <[email protected]>
>  >Subject: RE: chay' Dochmey vIjatlh?
>  >
>  >lab K'ryntes:
>  >
>  >> Andeen, Eric wrote:
>  >
>  >>> lab K'ryntes:
>  >>>
>  >>> > chay' <more> vIjatlhlaH?
>  >>> > *lutmey <more> vIqonnIS* vIjatlh vIneH.
>  >>>
>  >>> The word <latlh> is just what you want. <latlh> is one of those 
>  words
>  >like
>  >>> <Hoch> that gets treated a little differently in the N-N 
>  construction -
>  >it
>  >>> goes in front of the other noun. "More stories" or "other stories" 
>  would
>  >be
>  >>> <latlh lutmey>.
>  >
>  >> So <latlh lut> would mean an additional story?
>  >
>  >HIja'
>  >
>  >> Does <latlh> mean "others" too? As in <latlhvaD jIvum.>.  
>  >> I've seen it used that way.  That would be, "I work for others."
>  >
>  >All by itself, <latlh> is "other, another". If the noun is obvious, as 
>  in
>  >your example, it makes perfect sense to drop the noun and just use 
>  <latlh>.
>  >
>  >
>  >pagh
>  >Beginners' Grammarian
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  
>  
>  Would I use latlh if I wanted to say, like "Give me another phaser," in 
>  the sense of "Give me a different phaser" (perhaps the one I have 
>  doesn't work, and I need a different one.) or would I use pIm?
>  
>  
>  ______________________________________________________
>  Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>  
>  
>  ------------------------------
>  
>  Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:34:05 -0700
>  From: "Andeen, Eric" <[email protected]>
>  To: "'[email protected]'" <[email protected]>
>  Subject: RE: Ordering food
>  Message-ID: <CBD6795F70A5D211B2B20008C733321A031C6C@INFINITI2>
>  
>  lab Patrick Masterson:
>  
>  > I would just say "He makes the house white." as 
>  > juH chISmoH (ghaH). When I use a phrase like (object) (verb)+moH 
>  > (subject) I usually translate it as "(subject) causes (object) to 
>  > (verb)", in this case "He causes house to be white." 
>  
>  maj.
>  
>  > If I wish to translate "(Subject) causes (object) to (verb) (other 
>  > object)," like in "The officer caused the guard to hit the captain.", I 
>  > do it like "(other object) with no t5 suffix (object) (verb)+moH 
>  > subject)", so my above sentence would be "HoD 'avwI' qIpmoH yaS" (In 
>  > TKD it says if there are other nouns in a sentence they go before the 
>  > direct object.)
>  
>  This does not work. To start with, I am really unsure who is hitting whom. 
I
>  know the officer is causing the hitting, but I really don't know who is
>  doing the hitting and who is getting hit. Extra nouns are indeed placed
>  before the object, but they need to be marked as such with a type 5 suffix.
>  TKD also says "... nouns which indicate something special other than 
subject
>  or object must have some special indication of what their function is.
>  Unlike English, this is accomplished by using suffixes."
>  
>  The way we indicate indirect objects, especially in cases involving <-moH>,
>  is with the suffix <-vaD>:
>  
>  HoDvaD 'avwI' qIpmoH yaS - The officer caused the captain to hit the guard.
>  
>  
>  pagh
>  Beginners' Grammarian
>  
>  
>  ------------------------------
>  
>  Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:35:47 -0700
>  From: "Andeen, Eric" <[email protected]>
>  To: "'[email protected]'" <[email protected]>
>  Subject: RE: chay' Dochmey vIjatlh?
>  Message-ID: <CBD6795F70A5D211B2B20008C733321A031C6D@INFINITI2>
>  
>  lab Patrick Masterson:
>  
>  > Would I use latlh if I wanted to say, like "Give me another 
>  > phaser," in the sense of "Give me a different phaser" (perhaps 
>  > the one I have doesn't work, and I need a different one.) or 
>  > would I use pIm?
>  
>  latlh pu' HInob. - Give me another phaser
>  pu' pIm HInob.   - Give me a different phaser
>  
>  Pretty much the same thing. Decide which one you prefer.
>  
>  
>  pagh
>  Beginners' Grammarian
>  
>  
>  ------------------------------
>  
>  Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 23:31:41 +0100
>  From: [email protected] (Christiane Scharf)
>  To: [email protected]
>  Subject: Re: KLBC: HovqIj jun Hov wov
>  Message-ID: <[email protected]>
>  
>  ja' HomDoq:
>  
>  > ja' HovqIj:
>  > > displays.(?) Es zeigt.(?) I can see your point, that it is just
>  > > unimportant in the first place _what_ is displayed. It doesn't seem to
>  > > be wrong, just strange. (By now everybody should have found out my real
>  > > name: HovHuj...)
>  > >
>  > yeah, I was all up in arms against "He gives." (Er gibt.)
>  > We didn't have {Dab} back then, but "He dwells." (Er wohnt.)
>  > is really my favorite for displaying (no pun intended) the
>  > strange feeling I get with these.
>  
>  When would I use <Dab> without an object? If I understand this
>  correctly, these forms are only used to describe an action generally,
>  when no further information is needed. Like <jISop>: it's not
>  interesting what I eat, only the fact that I eat is important. I really
>  can't think of a situation where <Dab> could be used like this. I mean,
>  dwelling is not something I do at one moment, and the place where one
>  dwells usually does matter when people are talking about this kind of
>  thing. <cha'bogh nav> seems strange, but at least I can find some
>  legitimation for it. <Dab> without an object however doesn't make sense
>  to me. Maybe there are a few rare cases when it could be used, but I
>  can't think of one at the moment.
>  
>  >
>  >
>  > > Uh-oh... something interesting is taking form in my mind:
>  > > ghawran cha'bogh navmey Daleghpu''a'?
>  > > Have you seen...
>  > >                ...the pictures that show Gowron?
>  > >              ...Gowron's pictures?
>  >
>  > I think this looks perfectly fine...
>  
>  Interesting and confusing. Might be useful for poetry.
>  
>  
>  HovqIj
>  
>  >
>  >
>  >                                            Marc Ruehlaender
>  >                                            aka HomDoq
>  >                                            [email protected]
>  
>  
>  
>  ------------------------------
>  
>  Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 23:40:50 +0100
>  From: [email protected] (Christiane Scharf)
>  To: [email protected]
>  Subject: Re: KLBC: HovqIj jun Hov wov
>  Message-ID: <[email protected]>
>  
>  ja' jey'el:
>  
>  > ghunchu'wI'vaD jangtaHvIS HovqIj, jatlh:
>  >
>  > >  > -- any transitive verb
>  > >  > can be used with an unstated object, like {Sop} or {laD}.  The 
bottom
>  > >  > of TKD page 33 talks about this sort of usage.
>  > >
>  > >  I've heard "He's eating" or "I'm reading" and similar sentences, but 
I'
> ve
>  > >  never heard "It's displaying". Maybe it's just because my ears aren't 
> used
>  > >  to it, but it still sounds strange.
>  > >
>  > lo'vetlh rur jonwI' lo'.  QapHa'chugh HaSta, wa' jonwI'vaD jatlhlaH latlh
>  > jonwI':
>  > QaQ De' luje'bogh tlheghmey Dotlh.  'eltaH De' law'.
>  > 'ach cha'taHbe'qu' janvam 'Igh!!
>  >
>  > Engineers talk like that.  If the visual display is malfunctioning, one
>  > engineer may say to another:  The data feed lines are in good condition.
>  > Plenty of data is getting in.  But this accursed device isn't displaying 
> at
>  > all !!
>  
>  
>  
>  Daj. <_vay'_ cha'be'taH> <pagh cha'taH> ghap jatlh nuv 'e' vIpIH. 
>  not pagh DaghojlaH.   or, of course:   reH bIghojlaH...  ;)   (I have no
>  problem with this one, but I like the sound of the double negative
>  better)
>  
>  
>  HovqIj
>  
>  
>  
>  >
>  >
>  > --jey'el
>  
>  
>  
>  ------------------------------
>  
>  Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:32:29 -0500
>  From: TPO <[email protected]>
>  To: [email protected]
>  Subject: RE: Ordering food
>  Message-ID: <[email protected]>
>  
>  >> If I wish to translate "(Subject) causes (object) to (verb) (other 
>  >> object)," like in "The officer caused the guard to hit the captain.", I 
>  >> do it like "(other object) with no t5 suffix (object) (verb)+moH 
>  >> subject)", so my above sentence would be "HoD 'avwI' qIpmoH yaS" (In 
>  >> TKD it says if there are other nouns in a sentence they go before the 
>  >> direct object.)
>  >
>  >...
>  >The way we indicate indirect objects, especially in cases involving 
<-moH>,
>  >is with the suffix <-vaD>:
>  >
>  >HoDvaD 'avwI' qIpmoH yaS - The officer caused the captain to hit the 
guard.
>  
>  
>  I kind of remember reading about this but I can't remember where.
>  
>  Where does this usage (determining who hit whom) come from? (so I can
>  RE-read it)
>  
>  
>  DloraH
>  
>  
>  ------------------------------
>  
>  Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:41:20 EST
>  From: [email protected]
>  To: [email protected]
>  Subject: Re: mu'meywIj tetlh
>  Message-ID: <[email protected]>
>  
>  In a message dated 1/12/1999 11:56:36 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
>  [email protected] writes:
>  
>  <<  Finally, a question.  Did you record a list of "your words," or is this
>  "your
>   > list" of words?
>   
>   My word list.  Does it matter which noun the -wIj goes on? >>
>  
>  It matters.  The answer lies in my question of whether it is your list of
>  someone's words, perhaps from TKD, etc., giving mu'mey tetlhwIj or it is a
>  list of YOUR words, ones you have created, devised, etc., giving mu'meywIj
>  tetlh.
>  
>  peHruS
>  
>  
>  ------------------------------
>  
>  Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:45:14 EST
>  From: [email protected]
>  To: [email protected]
>  Subject: Re: mu'meywIj tetlh
>  Message-ID: <[email protected]>
>  
>  In a message dated 1/12/1999 12:17:48 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
>  [email protected] writes:
>  
>  << Do you mean {paq chu' wIHevbogh poH vISovbe'},
>   
>   This is probably close.  I was trying to say, "I don't know when we will
>  receive
>   the new book."
>    
>   How 'bout this....
>   
>   paq chu' wIHevDI' vISovbe'.  if I just drop the 'e'?
>    >>
>  
>  I'm not the BG, just a tlhIngan Hol jatlhwI' of six years already.  But, 
no.
>  Merely dropping the {'e'} won't work.  Reason:  Your sentence means "As 
soon
>  as we receive a new book, I will not know [something]."
>  
>  paq chu' wIHevbogh poH vISovbe' means "I do not know the time which we will
>  receive a new book."
>  
>  peHruS
>  
>  
>  ------------------------------
>  
>  Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:56:34 EST
>  From: [email protected]
>  To: [email protected]
>  Subject: Re: Ordering food
>  Message-ID: <[email protected]>
>  
>  In a message dated 1/13/1999 2:50:43 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
>  [email protected] writes:
>  
>  << HoDvaD 'avwI' qIpmoH yaS - The officer caused the captain to hit the 
> guard.
>  >>
>  
>  Dunqu', pagh
>  
>  I find this to be an excellent use of {-vaD}.
>  
>  peHruS
>  
>  
>  ------------------------------
>  
>  Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:53:20 EST
>  From: [email protected]
>  To: [email protected]
>  Subject: Re: Ordering food
>  Message-ID: <[email protected]>
>  
>  In a message dated 1/13/1999 2:10:50 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
>  [email protected] writes:
>  
>  << 
>   If I wish to translate "(Subject) causes (object) to (verb) (other 
>   object)," like in "The officer caused the guard to hit the captain.", I 
>   do it like "(other object) with no t5 suffix (object) (verb)+moH 
>   (subject)", so my above sentence would be "HoD 'avwI' qIpmoH yaS" (In 
>   TKD it says if there are other nouns in a sentence they go before the 
>   direct object.) >>
>  
>  How do I know that this does not mean "The officer caused the captain's 
> guard
>  to hit.....?"
>  
>  peHruS
>  
>  
>  ------------------------------
>  
>  Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:54:35 -0500
>  From: "K'ryntes" <[email protected]>
>  To: [email protected]
>  Subject: Re: Ordering food
>  Message-ID: <[email protected]>
>  
>  
>  
>  [email protected] wrote:
>  
>  > In a message dated 1/13/1999 2:50:43 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
>  > [email protected] writes:
>  >
>  > << HoDvaD 'avwI' qIpmoH yaS - The officer caused the captain to hit the 
> guard.
>  > >>
>  >
>  > Dunqu', pagh
>  >
>  > I find this to be an excellent use of {-vaD}.
>  >
>  > peHruS
>  
>  jImISqu'.
>  
>  K'ryntes
>  
>  
>  
>  ------------------------------
>  
>  Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:18:45 -0500
>  From: Alan Anderson <[email protected]>
>  To: [email protected]
>  Subject: Re: chay' Dochmey vIjatlh?
>  Message-ID: <l03020900b2c30edfed2d@[206.150.216.97]>
>  
>  ja' K'ryntes:
>  >chay' <more> vIjatlhlaH?
>  
>  pab Sar poQ ghu' Sar.  rut yap <latlh>.  rut 'ut <pIm>.  wa'logh
>  "I need to drink more coffee" mughlu'meH, <qa'vIn vItlhutlhnISqa'>
>  vIchup.
>  
>  >*lutmey <more> vIqonnIS* vIjatlh vIneH.
>  
>  bIjatlhlaH <latlh lutmey vIqonnIS>.
>  <lutmey chu' vIqonnIS> vIparHa' jIH.
>  
>  >chay' <again> vIjatlhlaH?
>  
>  rut Qapbe' wot mojaq <-qa'>, 'ach motlh pup.
>  
>  -- ghunchu'wI'
>  
>  
>  
>  ------------------------------
>  
>  Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:54:35 -0500
>  From: Alan Anderson <[email protected]>
>  To: [email protected]
>  Subject: Re: qepHomHey
>  Message-ID: <l03020901b2c312ccd93c@[206.150.216.97]>
>  
>  mujang peHruS:
>  ><< jImIS.  bIjeSlaH 'e' nISbogh paQDI'norgh DabuSHa'rupchoH'a'? >>
>  >
>  >jIjang 'e' qotlhbe' jabbI'IDlIj
>  
>  bIjangbe'chugh, jImISbe'choHlaHbe'.
>  jImIStaH 'e' DamaS'a'?
>  
>  >chaq Saturday qepHom lumuvqang vay'
>  >lalDanmo' vImuvqangbe'
>  
>  maj.  ngoDHeyvetlh vIyajpu'.
>  
>  >vaj jaj pIm vIchuppu' neH
>  >'ach bIbeplaw' 'e' vItu'
>  
>  jIbepta'be'qu' jay'!  cha'logh chopum, 'ej cha'logh bImujbej.
>  jIghel neH <qatlh De'wI' qepHom Dacherbe' SoH?>
>  
>  peHruS, yIqIm!  jabbI'IDlIj ngo' vIlaDqa':
>  
>  |>latlh qepHommey DIpoQnISbe' 'e' vIHar
>  |>wa' qepHomvam wIlo'laH
>  |>vaj jIjeSqang
>  
>  yap wa' qepHomHey 'e' DaHarlaw'.
>  bIjeSqang 'e' Damaqbej.
>  vaj jImIS.  Saturday qepHom che' Lisa Stapp.
>  latlh De'wI' qepHom tu'lu'be'.
>  qepHomHeyDaj Damuvqanglaw', qar'a'?
>  jIghel neH.  wej vImISbe'.
>  
>  -- ghunchu'wI'
>  
>  
>  
>  ------------------------------
>  
>  Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 23:02:35 -0500
>  From: Alan Anderson <[email protected]>
>  To: [email protected]
>  Subject: Re: pIvlaw' tIqwIj
>  Message-ID: <l03020902b2c31b3ad45f@[206.150.216.97]>
>  
>  ja' charghwI':
>  >tI'laHbe' Qel. jIloSnIS neH.
>  
>  maj.  chaq ghorbe'lu', 'ach 'oy'mo' Daghongbe' vaj rach'eghlaH.
>  
>  >loQ 'oy'qu' neH. {{:)>
>  
>  Dajqu' mu'meyvam tay'.
>  
>  -- ghunchu'wI'
>  
>  
>  
>  ------------------------------
>  
>  Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 23:18:46 -0500
>  From: Alan Anderson <[email protected]>
>  To: [email protected]
>  Subject: Re: mu'meywIj tetlh
>  Message-ID: <l03020904b2c32019f94e@[206.150.216.97]>
>  
>  ja'pu' netlh:
>  > Quchchu' *K'ryntes*
>  > Hoch mu'tlhegh lutlha' monwI'mey  :)
>  
>  ja' K'ryntes:
>  >LOL!  HIja', tlhIngan Quch jIH. :D
>  
>  ja' tlhIngan tIgh nav wa'vatlh javmaH Soch:
>  >pIj monchugh vay' yIvoqQo'.
>  
>  -- ghunchu'wI'
>  
>  
>  
>  ------------------------------
>  
>  Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 23:10:44 -0500
>  From: Alan Anderson <[email protected]>
>  To: [email protected]
>  Subject: Re: ghIQta' ghunchu'wI'
>  Message-ID: <l03020903b2c31de8756d@[206.150.216.97]>
>  
>  ja' charghwI':
>  >boSIQta''a'? bIDo'chu'! batlh maHegh Hoch!
>  
>  tlhaQ lutlIj jen, 'ach teHchu' lutwIj.  mataHta'.  ta'maj yIvaqQo'.
>  
>  -- ghunchu'wI'
>  
>  
>  
>  ------------------------------
>  
>  Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 23:25:54 -0500
>  From: Alan Anderson <[email protected]>
>  To: [email protected]
>  Subject: Re: qa'vIn
>  Message-ID: <l03020905b2c320ba1f13@[206.150.216.97]>
>  
>  ja'pu' charghwI':
>  > He'So' mu'tlheghvam je.
>  
>  ja' K'ryntes
>  ><He'So' je mu'tlheghvam> DajatlhnIS 'e' vIHar.
>  
>  lugh K'ryntes.  (rut lughbe' charghwI' net tu'.)
>  Whether you're applying the "also" to the subject or the object of
>  the sentence, the {je} comes after the verb.
>  
>  TKD page 55:
>  | The noun conjunction {je} has an additional function:  when it follows
>  | a verb, it means /also, too/.
>  |
>  | {qaleghpu' je} /I also saw you, I saw you too/
>  |
>  | As in English, the meaning of such sentences is ambiguous:  /I and
>  | others saw you/ or /I saw you and others/.  The exact meaning is
>  | determined by context.
>  
>  -- ghunchu'wI'
>  
>  
>  
>  ------------------------------
>  
>  Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:20:35 -0600
>  From: Terry Donnelly <[email protected]>
>  To: [email protected]
>  Subject: Re: mu'meywIj tetlh
>  Message-ID: <[email protected]>
>  
>  [email protected] wrote:
>  > 
>  > In a message dated 1/12/1999 12:17:48 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
>  > [email protected] writes:
>   
>  >  I was trying to say, "I don't know when we will
>  > receive
>  >  the new book."
>  > 
>  >  How 'bout this....
>  > 
>  >  paq chu' wIHevDI' vISovbe'.  if I just drop the 'e'?
>  >   >>
>  >
>  
>  I think you are confused by the definition of /-DI'/.  It means 'when'
>  only
>  in the sense of 'as soon as': /paq chu' vIHevDI', jIQuchmoH/  'As soon
>  as/when 
>  I receive the new book, I will become happy.'
>  
>   
>  > I'm not the BG, just a tlhIngan Hol jatlhwI' of six years already.  But, 
> no.
>  > Merely dropping the {'e'} won't work.  Reason:  Your sentence means "As 
> soon
>  > as we receive a new book, I will not know [something]."
>  > 
>  > paq chu' wIHevbogh poH vISovbe' means "I do not know the time which we 
> will
>  > receive a new book."
>  > 
>  
>  Actually, this doesn't work, either.  As charghwI' (I believe) pointed
>  out, this
>  means 'I do not know the time of the new book which we receive.' 
>  Unfortunately,
>  the correct translation is unknown to us at present because the original
>  English sentence is an example of a relative adverb, which we just don't
>  know how 
>  to say yet.  In the sentence "I know _when_ the book is coming", we have
>  never yet
>  found a way to express that 'when'.  It is _not_ the same as the word
>  /ghorgh/,
>  which means only 'when?' as a question.  We have the same problem with
>  words like
>  'where' and 'how' (as in "I know how you did it").  You can get around
>  the problem
>  by re-casting (eg. /vay' Data'. mIwlIj vISov/), but we don't know any
>  Klingon
>  equivalents to the relative adverb at this time.
>   
>  
>  
>  -- ter'eS
>  
>  
>  ------------------------------
>  
>  Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:28:32 -0600
>  From: Terrence Donnelly <[email protected]>
>  To: [email protected]
>  Subject: Re: mu'meywIj tetlh
>  Message-ID: <[email protected]>
>  
>  At 12:26 AM 1/14/99 -0800, I wrote:
>  
>  >>  How 'bout this....
>  >> 
>  >>  paq chu' wIHevDI' vISovbe'.  if I just drop the 'e'?
>  >>   >>
>  >>
>  >
>  >I think you are confused by the definition of /-DI'/.  It means 'when'
>  >only
>  >in the sense of 'as soon as': /paq chu' vIHevDI', jIQuchmoH/  'As soon
>  
>  Oops. should be just /paq chu' vIHevDI', jIQuch/
>  
>  -- ter'eS
>  
>  
>  ------------------------------
>  
>  Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:28:34 -0600
>  From: Terrence Donnelly <[email protected]>
>  To: [email protected]
>  Subject: HolQeD
>  Message-ID: <[email protected]>
>  
>  I received my latest issue of HolQeD over a week ago.  Has anyone else
>  received theirs?  If so, the list has been strangely silent about it.
>  
>  I'd like to comment on the excellent interview with Marc Okrand.  It
>  was great: it gave us some new information that confirmed some of
>  my own opinions and that didn't contradict any of my cherished
>  beliefs.  What more could you ask for!
>  
>  charghwI', yu'meH mIwlIjmo' qavanbej!
>  
>  -- ter'eS
>  
>  
>  ------------------------------
>  
>  Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:44:04 -0500
>  From: "K'ryntes" <[email protected]>
>  To: [email protected]
>  Subject: Re: mu'meywIj tetlh
>  Message-ID: <[email protected]>
>  
>  
>  
>  Alan Anderson wrote:
>  
>  > ja'pu' netlh:
>  > > Quchchu' *K'ryntes*
>  > > Hoch mu'tlhegh lutlha' monwI'mey  :)
>  >
>  > ja' K'ryntes:
>  > >LOL!  HIja', tlhIngan Quch jIH. :D
>  >
>  > ja' tlhIngan tIgh nav wa'vatlh javmaH Soch:
>  > >pIj monchugh vay' yIvoqQo'.
>  >
>  > -- ghunchu'wI'
>  
>  >:I  'e' Dalegh DaneH'a'?
>  
>  ghobe'!
>  
>  :oD  'e' Dalegh DaneH!
>  
>  pIj bImon je!  :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
>  
>  K'ryntes
>  
>  
>  ------------------------------
>  
>  Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 13:07:53 -0500
>  From: "K'ryntes" <[email protected]>
>  To: [email protected]
>  Subject: Re: HolQeD
>  Message-ID: <[email protected]>
>  
>  
>  
>  Terrence Donnelly wrote:
>  
>  > I received my latest issue of HolQeD over a week ago.  Has anyone else
>  > received theirs?  If so, the list has been strangely silent about it.
>  
>  HIja'!  I also received mine about that time.  It is definately an
>  excellent issue. The cover art was beautiful,  charghwI's interview was
>  great and I always enjoy the editorials.
>  
>  K'ryntes
>  
>  >
>  >
>  > I'd like to comment on the excellent interview with Marc Okrand.  It
>  > was great: it gave us some new information that confirmed some of
>  > my own opinions and that didn't contradict any of my cherished
>  > beliefs.  What more could you ask for!
>  >
>  > charghwI', yu'meH mIwlIjmo' qavanbej!
>  >
>  > -- ter'eS
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  ------------------------------
>  
>  End of TLHINGAN-HOL Digest 1014
>  *******************************
>  
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