Re: KLBC challenge

[Jeremy Silver <jeremy@mupwi.demon.co.uk>]

On 30-Jun-99, William H. Martin wrote:
>On Wed, 30 Jun 1999 16:12:09 -0400 Jeremy Silver 
><jeremy@mupwi.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>> On 30-Jun-99, charghwI' wrote:
>> >On Tue, 29 Jun 1999 15:18:43 -0400 Jeremy Silver 
>> ><jeremy@mupwi.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> >> On 29-Jun-99, charghwI' wrote:
>> >> 
>> >> >Ask me a question. In Klingon. If you think this assignment is 
>> >> >too easy, then make it an inventive question. If you think this 
>> >> >is too hard, make it a simple one.
>> >> 
>> >> First to lay a little groundwork.
>> >> pa'DajDaq tlhIngan SuvwI'. 
>> 
>> > What does the Klingon warior DO in his room? 
>> 
>> pa'DajDaq ghaHtaH tlhIngan SuvwI'

>Remember that if you have a noun as subject to the verb "to be" 
>represented by a Klingon pronoun acting as a verb, that subject 
>needs a suffix. I could tell you which one, but I'd rather have 
>you tell me which one. Likely you'd remember it better if I 
>don't just tell you.

pa'DajDaq ghaHtaH tlhIngan SuvwI''e'


>> >> lojmItDaq muplu' pagh wab chenmoHmeH lojmIt 'In chu'lu'.
>> 
>> >This is pretty good. It might be a little clearer if you dropped 
>> >the {-Daq} from the first word. One does not strike at the 
>> >door's location. One strikes the door. In English, you knock ON 
>> >the door, but you strike the door. Prepositions are implied in 
>> >some verbs toward their direct objects, especially when you 
>> >cross language barriers.
>> 
>> >> 'em lojmItDaq 'Iv leghlaHbe' SuvwI'.
>> 
>> >You were trying something really interesting here. 
>> > You aren't asking a question here, so 
>> >{'Iv} is not the right word.
>> 
>> 'em lojmItDaq vay'bogh leghlaHbe' SuvwI'.

>{vay'} is a noun. {-bogh} is a verb suffix.

lojmIt 'emDaq vay' leghlaHbe' SuvwI'.

>> or
>> SoQmo' lojmIt lojmItDaq 'em pagh leghlaH SuvwI'.

>Notice that with the term {'em lojmItDaq} you are referring to 
>"at the area behind's door", or "at the door of the area 
>behind". I don't think that is what you really intend to be 
>talking about. The location you want is "at the area behind". 
>Which area behind? "at the door's area behind". Reconsider your 
>word order.

SoQmo' lojmIt lojmIt 'emDaq pagh leghlaH SuvwI'.


>> toH! DaH jIjaj.

>That's either a typo or a spelling error. Your choice. 

I noticed my error too late.

*DaH* jIyaj

>> >> "yIDuv wa' 'ej SoH ghovmojpu'" jach'a'?
>> 
>> >I don't understand the word {ghovmojpu'}. My guess is that it 
>> >should be {ghovmoHpu'}, but I don't understand what {-pu'} is 
>> >doing there, and with {SoH} in the object position, I strongly 
>> >suspect that we have a missing verb prefix.
>> 
>> I think the following is closer to what I intended:
>> "yIDuv wa' 'ej SoH bIghovlu'pu'" jach'a'
>> 
>> What I had in mind was the challenge used by Terran sentries "Advance one
>> and be recognised".

>The problem is that the imperitive implies a second person 
>subject and it seems very strange to have an explicit subject 
>{wa'} added to that. I've never seen anything like it done, 
>though I accept that Okrand could do it and it would of course 
>be right. Since he hasn't done it yet, I'm less sure it is right.

You mean {yI} implies only "you - singular", not "one (of you)", can be the
subject?
Isnt "one (of you)" the same as "you - singular"?
This is getting confusing.

>As for "SoH bIghovlu'pu'" look at the word order again. O-V-S. 
>Object-Verb-Subject. Hmmm. Then again, look at the prefix {bI-} 
>and the suffix {-lu'}. They don't work together. Either this 
>needs a good bit more work, or you might consider starting over 
>trying to say what you meant to say. Consider using Sentence As 
>Object with something like "I recognize you. Permit that."
> 

I seem to be too hung up on the words, not the meaning - and getting in a
right old mess.

Do these work?
{qaghovmeH yIDuv} or {qangu'meH yIDuv}

Is this what you had in mind?
{qaghov 'e' yIchaw'}

But there still seems to be the problem of separating one (don't care who)
from a possible group and ordering him/her to do something.

>charghwI' 'utlh

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