tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Jun 08 12:20:47 1999
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RE: causative
- From: "Andeen, Eric" <[email protected]>
- Subject: RE: causative
- Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 12:21:40 -0700
jatlh QeHHoS:
> poSmoH => make sthg be open
> vuvmoH => make sthg/s.o. respect someone
maj.
> But how do we say 'I made him respect them' (pronouns unimportant)
> subject I object him and another thing: them!
If the "him" and the "them" are pefectly clear, then <vIvuvmoH> works just
fine, but that is not, I think, what you are asking. My explanation is
controversial, but it is based on the way I understand <-moH>. Several
skilled Klingonists agree with me, and several others do not. To make your
example a bit clearer, I'll use "I made Maltz respect Torg".
When dealing with a normally transitive verb like <vuv> and adding <-moH>,
the object of the verb stays exactly the same as what it would be without
the <-moH>. If "I made Maltz respect Torg", then a similar sentence without
the causation would be <torgh vuv matlh> - "Maltz respects Torg". When
adding the <-moH>, Torg stays the object. The <-moH> changes the subject
from Maltz, who is doing the action (vuv), to <jIH>, who is causing Maltz to
do the action. Maltz shifts to the front of the sentence and gets a <-vaD>
put onto him:
matlhvaD torgh vIvuvmoH.
> And how do we say "You will die on your knees'
What does "on your knees" mean? It means "kneeling", so ... <bItortaHvIS
bIHegh>.
> and another thing: does *DIvI` Hol pab* discriminate between the two
> causative verb groups above (transitive=>transitive vs. intransitive=>
> transitive)? We call them 'ettirgen' and 'oldurgan' in Turkish,
> respectively.( make do, make be roughly)
I'm not a linguist, so I'll let the professionals answer this one.
pagh
Beginners' Grammarian
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