RE: causative

["Andeen, Eric" <Eric.Andeen@Sequencia.com>]

jatlh QeHHoS:

> poSmoH => make sthg be open
> vuvmoH => make sthg/s.o. respect someone

maj.

> But how do we say 'I made him respect them' (pronouns unimportant)
> subject I object him and another thing: them!

If the "him" and the "them" are pefectly clear, then <vIvuvmoH> works just
fine, but that is not, I think, what you are asking. My explanation is
controversial, but it is based on the way I understand <-moH>. Several
skilled Klingonists agree with me, and several others do not. To make your
example a bit clearer, I'll use "I made Maltz respect Torg".

When dealing with a normally transitive verb like <vuv> and adding <-moH>,
the object of the verb stays exactly the same as what it would be without
the <-moH>. If "I made Maltz respect Torg", then a similar sentence without
the causation would be <torgh vuv matlh> - "Maltz respects Torg". When
adding the <-moH>, Torg stays the object. The <-moH> changes the subject
from Maltz, who is doing the action (vuv), to <jIH>, who is causing Maltz to
do the action. Maltz shifts to the front of the sentence and gets a <-vaD>
put onto him:

matlhvaD torgh vIvuvmoH.

> And how do we say "You will die on your knees'

What does "on your knees" mean? It means "kneeling", so ... <bItortaHvIS
bIHegh>.

> and another thing: does *DIvI` Hol pab* discriminate between the two
> causative verb groups above (transitive=>transitive vs. intransitive=>
> transitive)? We call them 'ettirgen' and 'oldurgan' in Turkish,
> respectively.( make do, make be roughly)

I'm not a linguist, so I'll let the professionals answer this one.


pagh
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