tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sun Aug 01 19:19:44 1999

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Re: RE: Rating--WRONG pagh,

On Sun, 1 Aug 1999 07:05:06 -0400 Eric Andeen <[email protected]> 
wrote:

> jatlh C.J. Miller:
> > Not true- i stated that 1 would be that a baby would
> > require no training, as in it could be on a stranded
> > island and learn it.
> 
> nIteb nenchoHchugh puq, vaj not Hol ghoj. vavDaj SoSDaj latlhpu' joq
> tlhejchugh nenchoHtaHvIS, vaj Hol ghojba'. ghojnISmoH pagh - 'ach Hol
> ghojbej.

jIQoch. reH nenwI'Daq SumDI' ghu, ghuvaD jatlhtaH nenwI'. Doch 
'agh nenwI' 'ej Dochvam pong jatlh 'ej jatlhqa'. jatlhbe'chugh 
ghu vaj jatlhqa'taH nenwI'. pongvam jatlhDI' ghu, latlh Doch 
'agh nenwI'. tlhoS jatlhDI' ghu, jatlhchu' nenwI'. jatlhHa'DI' 
puq jatlhchu' nenwI'. reH puq qeqqa'moHtaH nenwI'. jeS Hoch 
nenwI'pu'. <<HolwIj yIghoj!>> neH Hoch nenwI'.
 
> > Also, it is not that hard to learn them, just from
> > glancing through a binder of mine with stuff i have
> > printed out i have learned some elvish, klingon from
> > the KD and the KLI and other languages from that
> > binder--just with a mere glance.
> 
> Holvam Dalo'laHchu''a'? Hol nov neH bojatlhchugh SoH, latlh je,
> SuyajchuqlaH'a'? 'e' vIHonchu'.

vIHon je.
 
> Can you really use any of these languages well? Can you hold a conversation
> with another person in only that language? I very much doubt it.
> 
> Learning a language - any language - well enough to hold a conversation
> takes work. Even those who have a natural gift for languages can't learn
> another language that is significantly different from their own without
> effort.
 
The most impressive speaker I've recently met was Nick, who 
speaks quite fluently in the sense that he can think of the 
right words and affixes at quite a rapid pace. I criticised him 
for his vowels, but mean that only very gently. The fact is, if 
he spoke slower, I could understand him quite well with his 
vowels as he currently uses them, or if he more clearly 
differentiated between a, o and u and between I and e, then I 
probably could much better understand him even at his rapid 
pace. It is the combination that makes understanding him 
difficult. I don't have time to sort out in memory whether he 
said {qaH} or {qoH}, and in examples like this one, the vowel 
can be quite significant.

So, by your test, since I am not altogether certain that ANYBODY 
can understand him at full tilt with smudged vowels, you might 
not consider him fluent because he can't participate as one of 
two people conversing with perfect understanding. Meanwhile, I'm 
not NEARLY conversational because I'm so slow.

Although, for a week out of each year, I participate in a 
conversation or two completely in the language. Last year, it 
was a three way, emotional conversation with Qov, Seqram and 
me. This year, someone else has pointed out the extended 
conversation where many of us were trying to agree on a 
restaurant after discovering that we were misled by menus given 
us by the hotel for restaurants that no longer existed.

These unrehearsed conversations that are sustained in Klingon 
reveal that the population of reasonably conversational Klingon 
speakers is growing and improving year by year. mupIlmoH ghu'vam.

I'm certainly being surpassed by more naturally talented 
individuals, and I don't mind that one bit, so long as there are 
those who will be patient with me and include me in conversation.
 
> pagh
> Beginners' Grammarian

charghwI'

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