tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Nov 23 17:33:54 1998
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Re: DS9: Once More into the Breach
- From: SuSvaj <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: DS9: Once More into the Breach
- Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 20:42:04 -0500
qaSDI' 01:10 PM 11/23/98 -0800, ghItlh charghwI':
>The point you are missing is that Okrand has given us a
>description of clipping, which can explain the "problems" in
>ST3. I don't think that even in KGT he has given us an
>explanation for the line in ST5 about the Romulan and the
>Klingon being referred to as {romuluSngan je tlhIngan}. That's
>just plain wrong. It's not a dialect. It's not clipped. It's
>just wrong.
>
>Maybe it is a dialect in KGT that I missed. If so, please point
>it out to me.
No, you are not wrong. The only instance that I am aware of where that
kind of construction is acceptable is in idiomatic phrases like "mIv je
DaS." The instance on the bridge was not an example of that, as far as we
know. It is, as you say, quite wrong. The only point that I, and I
believe SuStel, would like to make is that most of the dialogue in ST5 is
quite good, and far more complex than anything that came before it. The
tlhIngan Hol in ST3 was little more than Kruge barking crude orders at his
crew. In ST5 we got actual conversation, and a good deal of it. It's not
perfect, and that needs to be said. But it's mostly good, and it is from
Okrand.
SuSvaj
>charghwI' 'utlh
>
>On Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:28:42 -0800 (PST) SuSvaj
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> qaSDI' 08:40 AM 11/23/98 -0800, ghItlh chargwI'
>> :
>> >On Sun, 22 Nov 1998 23:46:55 -0800 (PST) David Trimboli
>> ><[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> >There are basic flaws in a lot of the Klingon spoken there, like
>> >placing the conjunction {je} BETWEEN nouns instead of following
>> >them and such. It does have its share of changed subtitles, like
>> >the line about space junk not testing the warrior's mettle. I
>> >have less problems with that, but I did not see that kind of
>> >blatant error in ST3 as the misplaced conjunction, or the
>> >jumbled mess about the captain's merits.
>>
>> Actually, it was full of little screw ups. Such as the lack of prefix, and
>> suffix use. For example:
>>
>> "jolopa' yIjaH" (The suffix "Daq" absent)
>>
>> "He chu' ghoS, DI'vI' neHmaH." (The "yI" prefix not used)
>>
>> In his characteristically charitable way, Okrand created the concept of
>> "clipped Klingon" to account for this.
>>
>> SuSvaj
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