tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu Nov 05 11:52:50 1998
[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next]
Re: ambiguities in the Klingon and other questions
- From: "William H. Martin" <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: ambiguities in the Klingon and other questions
- Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 14:52:34 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
- In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
- Priority: NORMAL
On Thu, 5 Nov 1998 10:03:02 -0800 (PST) Alan Anderson
<[email protected]> wrote:
> [email protected] writes:
> >I am writing a linguistic paper on Klignon .
>
> Very nice...
>
> The only ambiguity that really bothers me is the word {wej}, meaning
> either "three" or "not yet". {loDpu' Dalegh'a'} "Do you see the men?"
> {wej vIlegh} "I see three (of them)" or "I don't see them yet."
Well, technically, that's a yes/no question:
la': loDpu' Dalegh'a'?
SuvwI': HIja'!
la': loD 'ar Dalegh?
SuvwI': wej.
If the officer asked, {loDpu' Dalegh'a'?} and the soldier
answered {wej loDpu' vIlegh,} meaning, "I don't see men yet,"
then as soon as the officer figured this out, he'd likely shoot
the soldier and snarl {Ha'DIbaH!}
It is important to answer the question asked. Of course, that
wasn't a very well stated question anyway, since the officer
probably wanted to know if he had seen ANY men yet. As asked, if
the soldier saw one man, he'd have to answer {ghobe'}. It should
have been {loD Dalegh'a'?}. Absence of plural suffix does not
imply singular, but presence of it does exclude singular.
If the conversation had opened with {loD 'ar Dalegh?} and the
answer was "I don't see any men yet," then that would be
expressed succinctly as {pagh!}
Of course, that does give our BG a tactical advantage...
> Are {Duy'a'} "ambassador" and {Duy''a'} "major defect" hard to tell
> apart?
tlhIb'a' Duy'a'? tlhIbchugh vaj nIb. tlhIbbe'chugh vaj pImba'.
> >Another question which I asked myself is:
> > What are the languages Mark Okrand was influenced by when creating
> >the Klingon language and in what way can I see that.
>
> [Be careful with spelling -- his first name is Marc with a "c".]
>
> The two overriding outside influences in the creation of the Klingon
> language were the sounds devised by James Doohan and spoken by Mark
> Lenard in the beginning of _Star Trek: The Motion Picture_, and the
> comment in the script for _Star Trek III: The Search for Spock_ saying
> that Kruge speaks "...a few words in his gutteral tongue." That was
> the basis for Klingon phonology.
That's an influence only for the sounds, not for the grammar.
Even then, Doohan's words only used about half of the phonemes
now in the language.
> The puns in the Klingon vocabulary reveal that the primary language
> influencing Okrand's development of the Klingon was American English.
That's an influence over vocabulary, but not grammar or phonemes.
> As for the grammar, however, existing natural languages almost seem to
> have been "anti-influences", with some features present in Klingon
> apparently because they are *not* found in many languages. :-)
maQochbe', maqoch.
> >I know he has a PH.D. in the languages of the West Coast Indians but
> >I would like to have some more concrete material....
>
> You probably won't find anything concrete. He was careful not to make
> it too close to any one language. I do understand, however, that the
> {law'/puS} comparison formula parallels closely a construction in one
> of the Native American languages he studied.
Good luck figuring out which one.
> >Why could we say that Klingon is the language of an alien race? Which
> >language universals does it not meet (except syntax)?
>
> Since it's the creation of a human mind, I think by definition it's a
> human language and any supposed "language universals" that it violates
> weren't really universal to begin with.
Except the {D}/{t} thing. The first time I saw him (StellarCon
16) he spoke about that one. There are four "d" and "t" phonemes
in human languages. Some use all four. Some use just dental
(like English). Some use just retroflex. Klingon uses a mixed
pair. Apparently no human language does that. It's a small
feature, though, and most people don't pronounce this all that
well. When tired or in a hurry, my {D} slides toward becoming
dental.
> >-Please write to [email protected]
> > and not to the mailing list since I am not a recipient.
>
> I've sent a copy to the list as well, since I believe that many of its
> participants will find the information interesting.
HeDon maghoS, jupwI'.
> --
> Alan Anderson, professional programmer and amateur Klingonist
> proud member of the Klingon Language Institute since 1995
> qo'mey poSmoH Hol -- language opens worlds -- /
charghwI'