tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Jun 24 13:10:57 1998

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Re: KLBC: poH waŽDIch Saghom

Apologies for not answering this sooner.  I've been shuffling beteen
accounts and lost it in the shuffle.
It's a good post and needed alert attention so I didn't dash off a
quick reply.

---Thomas Staller  wrote:
>
> Thomas jiH
> my name is thomas

Probably acceptable, (I use it) but to be certain use: 

*Thomas* 'oH pongwIj'e'.

It's possible that Thomas jIH would leave your listeners wondering
what a Thomas was. 

> *austria*Daq jIyIn
> i come from austria

We use {yIn} for "be alive" and {Dab} (not in TKD, only in KGT) for
live in/at a place.  The place is the object of the verb.

Austria vIDab.
 
> voqbeŽwIŽ mupongjaj tlhIngan juppuŽwIŽ choŽ
> may my new klingon friends call me *voqbeŽwIŽ*

This is not quite the normal use of {-jaj}.  {-jaj} has a prayer or
toast kind of of fervrent "may it be so!" to it.
Consider phrasing this as an order.

A Klingon verb gets awkward with two objects.  Please have a look at
the FAQ section on "my name is" and "call me."  It's at
http://labs.thomtech.com/~dspeers/klingon/faq.htm#2.1

The word is chu' not cho' for new.

> *list*vaD QInwIj waŽDIch jIlIŽ ŽeŽ ŽoH QInvamŽeŽ
> this message is the first message i send for the list

Many people use jabbI'IDghom for list or newsgroup.

Hmm, I don't think I've ever seen this before.  You're original. 
You've combined two constructions in a way that doesn't quite work. 
I'll explain both constructions (although I think you understand them
pretty well) and then let you choose which is appropriate here.

1. The word {'e' } - Sentence as object (SAO).  When the object of a
given verb is not a noun or noun phrase, but a verb or a complete
sentence, then the pronoun 'e' is inserted in the object position of
that verb.  The object of the verb remains an action. See section 6.2.5

I saw you meet the woman.
be' Daghom 'e' vIlegh

I know that you like targhs.
targhmey DaparHa' 'e' vISov.

2. pronoun as to be (PTB). A sentence of the form "X is Y" for X and Y
both nouns, might be translated. Y 'oH X'e'.  This is an extension of
the grammar in {tlhIngan maH} or {Thomas jIH} where you add the
referent of the pronoun, the explicit subject if the sentence, with
the topicalizer suffix.  The object of the verb has to act as a noun.
See 6.3

Alan is a programmer.
ghunwI' ghaH Alan'e'

The prisoners are children.
puqpu' chaH qama''e'.

The problem with your construction is that this message is not the
action of you sending the first message to the list, it's just the
first message.

--- rambling aside on a verbal object of {'oH} ...---
I'm trying to think of any time I would legitimately need to combine
SAO and PTB.

maaaaybe:
A ?qama' wIjoy' 'e' 'oH qechlIj'e'
Your idea was to torture the prisoner.

This could be distinct from {qama' wIjoy' DaneH} (you could have an
idea without wanting to implement it) or {qama' wIjoy' 'e' Dachup}
(you might not have voiced your idea).  I guess {qama' wIjoy 'e'
Daqel} covers this situation, but would a Klingon accept A?
----

If you're not happy with simply saying "This is my first message for
the list," and want to have the "I send to the list" explicit, the
tool you need is {-bogh}.  Try it out.  Oh and there is also a prefix
error above.

> tugh tlhIngan Hol vIjatlhlaHmeH QughmeywIj 
> Dalugh vIneH

> i want you to correct my errors in order that i can > speak klingon
soon

{lugh} means "be correct" for correct as in "make correct" add the
suffix {-moH}.  Qagh is error.  Qugh is disaster. And your errors
certainly aren't disasters.  This is an excellent first post.

> tlhIngan Hol vIghojmeH QughmeywIj Dalugh SIbIŽ > vIneH
> i want you to correct my errors immediately in order > that i learn
klingon

Same {lughmoH} and {Qagh} errors, plus an adverb that has crept away
from its proper place bfore the OVS of the sentence.  SIbI' belongs
before QaghmeywIj.

SIbI' vIlughmoHbe'ba', 'ej loQ DalughmoH SoH 'e' vIra', 'ach
qaghojmoHlaw'.  qar'a'?
 
> DaqDaq lugh *adverbials*mey vIlantaŽŽaŽ
> did i place the adverbials right?

I'd say simply {*adverbials* (or chuvmey) vIlanchu''a'?}.  If you
wanted to be pedantic about "placing them in the right position," have
another look at 4.4 and see that {Daq lughDaq} is "in the right
place."  Yes, that is a noun suffix on a verb.  Special case.

majQa' Thomas.  

P.S. Your subject line attempt to recreate an English idiom.  Look up
the word {qIH}. :)

P.P.S. Use the ordinary apostrophe key, next to the enter key on an
American keyboard, not whatever you used to create the ' marks in this
message.  They came out very oddly, and not at all on some people's
programs.
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