tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Fri Jan 02 17:37:47 1998
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Filming ST3 (was Re: pongmey)
- From: "William H. Martin" <[email protected]>
- Subject: Filming ST3 (was Re: pongmey)
- Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 20:36:16 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
- Priority: NORMAL
On Thu, 1 Jan 1998 22:30:17 -0800 (PST) Steven Boozer
<[email protected]> wrote:
> |ghItlh Doneq:
> |>Somehow I believe Okrand was ready to translate everything the
> |>Klingons said in the film. I noticed that (almost) all the needed
> |>vocabulary to translate what they said is available in TKD, though
> |>not everything the Humanpu' said is there.
> |
> |bItu'chu'. MO prepared for ST3 by coming up with Klingon for every line
> |intended to be spoken in Klingon as well as every line spoken by a Klingon,
> |just in case they sprung it on him. He has said this at many public
> |functions. But it definitely is lore which bears repeating!
> |
> |Qermaq
More that that, he also has said he went back and noted all the
things Klingons said in English in TOS (the original series),
the stuff said in the first movie and a few words Paramount gave
him to toss in as well.
> I've often wondered whether it went further than this with the director
> actually filming the Klingon scene in two versions, Klingon and English.
No. Had they done that, they would have had more material to
work with when they pulled tricks like adding the line "I wanted
prisoners," which was not filmed at all. Instead, they took an
outtake from "I said, 'Target engines only!'" making (except for
a dropped phrase) the exact same Klingon line mean two
completely different things.
Okrand explained that because of the smoke effects and lighting
effects and makeup that took so long to get into and could only
be tolerated so long, shooting all the interior Klingon ship
shots was such a big deal they were QUITE hesitant to do
anything extra. They planned them well in advance, shot what
they had to shoot and shut the set down. They chose to redub
scenes later rather than reshoot them.
> Remember that the scenes on Kruge's ship alternated between both languages,
> with the understanding that they were supposedly speaking in Klingon all of
> the time.
Well, the other thing about movies is that while we saw Klingons
talking to each other on the screen through their viewscreens,
the scenes on those two ships were shot weeks or maybe even
months apart. Quite possibly the Valkris scene was shot before
Okrand was hired to do the language. That's why he was called in
to coach dubbing it later.
> In Hollywood directors routinely film each scene many times - often as many
> as 20 or 30 times - for a variety of reasons: to vary the lights, the
> position of the cameras, the grouping of the actors, the reading the
> actors' give their lines, because of "bloopers" during the shooting (a
> mis-spoken or forgotten line, a prop or sound effect not working properly),
> etc. Directors like to do this not only to get a "backup" version on a
> different reel of film in case something happens to the first first one
> during processing, but also to give themselves enough film so they can pick
> and choose just the right "take" later during the post-production editing.
> This would include the option of putting together a final cut of the
> all-Klingon scenes: 1) entirely in Klingon as in ST5), 2) entirely in
> English with just a few Klingon words for atmosphere as they do on TV, or
> 3) in both languages as they also did in ST6.
I really doubt this happened. For all the anecdotes Okrand has
shared, he never once mentioned anything like this, and this is
exactly the kind of thing he would have shared. He likes talking
about the details of the movie making, like the makeup in ST6
during the trial. He explained that Kang had the kind of makeup
that looked perfect when viewed from a foot away. The extras
walking around had makeup that looked great at six feet, but if
you got closer, it didn't look so good. The Klingons in the
bleachers were wearing over-the-head rubber masks that looked
really bad if you got within 15 feet. Rather than coach the
actors in the bleachers to say lines in Klingon, they actually
taped Okrand saying lines to be dubbed in as background sounds.
Unfortunately, after they added the sound track and sound
effects, Okrand says his lines can't really be heard at all.
He talked about Christopher Lloyd's Klingon teeth. He talked
about working with each of the actors with their various scenes.
He never once talked about shooting even one scene in both
English and Klingon. Apparently that was a decision made before
the shooting started.
> Why do I suspect that Klingon versions of each scene were shot? Comic actor
> John Larroquette ("Maltz") said in several interviews that he really got a
> kick out of the fact that Paramount actually went so far as to have a
> Klingon tutor (Okrand) on the set for a couple of months coaching the
> actors to read their lines in Klingon. He was (don't laugh) impressed with
> their attention to detail. And even though he routinely spent four hours in
> the makeup chair, he seems to have had a good time making ST3. While there
> he facetiously proposed a spin off for Maltz and even a "Free Maltz!"
> campaign.
Hey, *I* would have signed up for THAT!
> In fact, it is Larroquette who was responsible for the puzzling
> sentence {nuqDaq yuch Dapol?} in TKD. Larroquette -- who apparently
> *always* had some chocolate on him since he was quitting smoking at the
> time -- once suggested a line of dialog to TPTB that Okrand translated for
> him as a joke during one of their Klingon language lessons.
What is TPTB?
> He wanted
> Christopher Lloyd (Kruge) to turn to him and say, "Bring me some chocolate,
> Maltz." Get it? "Chocolate malts"! Well... I guess you had to be there.
jIHvaD tlhaQ qIDvam.
> But, in spite of being extensively coached by Okrand, in the final cut
> Larroquette has only TWO WORDS in Klingon: {vaghvatlh qelI'qam}, which
> weren't even subtitled. All his other dialog was in English. What was all
> of the coaching for if they didn't use it on camera?
Did he actually say HE was coached or did he just say WE were
coached, in which case he was part of Christopher Lloyd's team
and HE was coached extensively. Also, wasn't Larroquette one of
the guys saying the unsubtitled lines down on the Genesis planet
when they discovered the worms that tried to strangle Kruge? Was
he one of the ones saying the lines that are so difficult to
figure out over the background noise? I think {chay' jura'} was
one of them.
> I wonder if the
> director and producer chose to use the English versions of the scenes
> because they didn't like the sound of the Klingon dialog, or perhaps they
> thought that the actors were having too much trouble delivering some
> Klingon lines believably, or they deleted it altogether (as they did with
> the aborted hijacking scenes on Klaa's BoP in ST5). Who knows? I'm sure
> that if there were scenes in Klingon on the cutting room floor, this
> footage would have long since been discarded.
ghaytan qar.
...
> Of course, this is all complete conjecture on my part. Those of you who
> have heard Okrand speak at conventions or have chatted with him in person
> may have heard more details of his time on the ST3 set. How about sharing
> them with us?
He talked about going to meet Christopher Lloyd in his home. He
was impressed with the actor's grace and hospitality. They sat
down for the coaching session and the actor quickly covered his
mouth and uttered, "Oh no! I forgot my teeth!" and turned and
ran out of the room.
Okrand suddenly felt embarrassed that he had walked in to this
man's home and not noticed that his host was missing his teeth
and had forgotten his false teeth. Lloyd came back with a
healthy set of teeth in his mouth and a very nasty set of
Klingon teeth in his hand. He figured that he'd be saying the
lines with the Klingon teeth on camera, so he should wear them
during the coaching session.
As for the "I wanted prisoners!" line, {qama'pu'} was originally
a verb meaning "I told you" (note that's a verb of speaking that
has now been converted into "accommodate" which is what Okrand
did to get this line to match its subtitle, and {-pu'} used as
simple past tense, later changed to perfective), but now it had
to mean "prisoners". His only plural suffix at this point was
{-mey}, so now he had to justify why there were two different
kinds of plural suffixes.
That's when he decided to differentiate between sentient beings
and things, and while he was at it, he threw in another suffix
for body parts. A lot of Klingon grammar was redefined because
of the backfitting of this one line.
That's probably enough for one Email message...
> Hmmm, after all this, I think I'm going to watch ST3 again this weekend.
>
> matlh yItlhabmoH!
HIja'! matlh yItlhabmoH!
> Voragh
charghwI'