tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu Feb 05 14:08:50 1998
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Re: KLBC: logh veQ
- From: [email protected] (Alan Anderson)
- Subject: Re: KLBC: logh veQ
- Date: Thu, 5 Feb 98 17:03:37 EST
ja' Edy:
>BG: ghunchu'vaD
pongwIj DaghItlhHa'pu'. <ghunchu'wI'> yIqaw.
wej maqIHchuqmo' jIHvaD qIgh pong yIlo'Qo'.
I'm called ghunchu'_wI'_. We don't know one another well enough yet
for me to let you get away with using a nickname. :-)
> tera' bav janHommey law' tu'lu'.
The first sentence has two verbs. It looks like you either forgot to
put {-bogh} on {bav}, or you changed thoughts mid-sentence and forgot
to remove {tu'lu'}.
Since {tera'} is a singular planet and {janHommey} are plural gadgets,
the {lu-} prefix is required. {tu'lu'} with a plural object should
properly have the {lu-} prefix too.
{tera' lubavbogh janHommey law' lutu'lu'}
or, more simply:
{tera' lubav janHommey law'} "Many minor devices orbit Earth."
Any time you find yourself using {tu'lu'} in a sentence having another
verb in it, consider making that other verb the main verb and dropping
the {tu'lu'}. Often, the idea is then expressed a lot more directly.
By the way, your Klingon sentence uses {janHommey} where your English
translation says "garbage". I assume you're aware of this mismatch.
>Qapbe'bogh SIbDoH Duj pugh je bIH.
maj, Qap pab.
For "pieces of ships" consider {Duj 'ay'}. {pugh} "dregs" doesn't
seem like it can apply to this meaning.
> vumchu' vaghvatlh reH.
Is {reH} here a typo for {neH}? If so, this sentence is saying
"Only 500 work completely." I don't see that anywhere in your
translation, however.
>loSnetlh wa'vatlh SIbDoH chu'Ha'lu'.
"One mis-activates 40100 satellite." Remember the {lu-} prefix on a
verb with an indefinite subject and a plural object: {luchu'Ha'lu'}.
It only seems to get left off regularly on {tu'lu'}. There's a "4100"
in the translation; that's {loSSaD wa'vatlh}. {SaD} is thousand;
{netlh} is ten thousand.
I think you merged a couple of sentences in the translation. Do you
mean that only 500 satellites are still working and 4100 have quit or
have been turned off?
>chorghnetlh janHommey tIn law' ghop tIn puS.
"Eighty thousand gizmos are bigger than a hand." Again, you've used
{netlh} where you meant {SaD}. I'm not sure if this means what you
want it to. I can interpret it as saying that it takes that many of
them to be bigger than a hand. I'm not certain whether quantities and
the {law'/puS} construction work one way or the other. To make your
meaning explicit, I'd probably use two sentences.
{chorghSaD janHommey tIqel. Hoch janHom tIn law' ghop tIn puS.}
"Consider 8000 minor devices. Each device is larger than a hand."
>ghop 'aD wa'vatlh wa'bIp janHommey.
"One hundred, one hundred thousand gizmos have a length of a hand."
That's an interesting use of {ghop} as a unit of size, but I can't
verify that it's correct. I'm not sure whether using it this way
counts as a singular object, either, but if it is, you again need
{lu-} on the verb because of the plural subject.
And your use of number-forming suffixes is at least *consistent* in
being off by a factor of ten. :-)
{wa'bIp wa'netlh} "one hundred ten thousand"
>wejmaH vagh'uy' mach law' ghop mach puS.
This is not quite as strange as the first {law'/puS} in its use of a
quantity. The examples given in TKD of numbers used as nouns all have
a "some of them" meaning, so there's a lot less ambiguity as to if
this means to consider them all at once or individually.
We're not really sure how to deal with numbers that get bigger than
the known suffixes can indicate. Some people do as you did, and just
say "thirty five million". Some people concatenate suffixes, making
{wejmaH'uy' vagh'uy'} "three ten-million five million".
> yuQmaj ghor pum veQvam HochHom 'ej chaq Qaw' lulInglaH.
You need to say {yuQmaj ghorDaq} "on our planet" or "to our planet".
{pum} is just "fall", not "fall onto".
You correctly used the {lu-} prefix here -- that's good.
{Qaw'} "destroy" is a verb. It's labeled as a noun in TKD, but that's
been determined to be a typographical error. TKW page 211:
noH QapmeH wo' Qaw'lu'chugh yay chavbe'lu'
'ej wo' choqmeH may' DoHlu'chugh lujbe'lu'.
"Destroying an empire to win a war is no victory,
and ending a battle to save an empire is no defeat."
The noun for "damage, destruction" is {QIH}.
{yuQmaj ghorDaq pum veQvam HochHom 'ej chaq QIH lulInglaH}
>'omwI'mo'(*) chungHa'taH janHommey vaj yuQDaq yuvHa'qa' tlham.
majQa' -- pup mu'tlheghvam pab. jum wa' mu' neH.
{'omwI'} "thing which resists". I think you're trying for the word
"resistance" or "friction". While one might be able to contrive a
translation using {-ghach} instead of {-wI'}, I'd suggest you just
name the thing causing the deceleration. What are the satellites
being slowed down by? It's {muD} "atmosphere".
>jenqu'chugh janHom vaj pummeH DIS law' loS.
"If a minor device is really high then it awaits many years to fall."
This might be okay, if "awaits many years" is what you want to say.
If what you mean is "waits for many years" then you'll probably have
to rephrase it to talk about many years occurring.
{...pumpa' qaS DIS law'} "...many years occur before it falls."
>muDDaq 'elDI' janHommey HochHom Qaw'chu'lu'
"As soon as most of the minor devices enter to the atmosphere one
completely destroys it..."
Ah, you've used {Qaw'} as a verb here. Good. Once again, remember
the {lu-} prefix! And the type 5 suffix {-lu'} must precede the type
6 suffix {-chu'}. {luQaw'lu'chu'} "they are completely destroyed."
{muDDaq 'el} is redundant. In English, one says "it enters the
atmosphere". The object of {'el} is the thing entered. TKW page 181:
HIq DaSammeH tach yI'el. "To find ale, go into a bar."
If you remove the {-Daq} from {muD}, suddenly {'el} has a plural
subject and a singular object. I shouldn't have to tell you again
that this calls for the {lu-} prefix, but I will. :-)
>'ej bIQ'a'meyDaq ratlhbogh janHommey QeyHa'lu'.
"And one is loose the minor devices which remain in the oceans."
"Loose" is the opposite of "tight". The word you're looking for in
English is spelled "lose", and its Klingon counterpart is {chIl}.
Again, the plural devices demand the {lu-} prefix.
The locative is somewhat ambiguous; are you referring to the devices
that stay in the ocean, or are you saying that's where the devices
that remain get lost? I know what you mean, but it could be a little
clearer.
> Qaw'mey lIng pumbogh wa'bIp javnetlh janHommeyvo' paghDIch'e'.
"The zeroth from one hundred sixty thousand minor devices which fall
produce destroys."
Don't try using {-vo'} this way. Captain Krankor, the Grammarian of
the KLI, likes it, but it's not attested in canon. I don't think it
follows the rules of grammar as we know them, and I don't think we
should be inventing new rules without examples on which to base them.
I'm also not sure that an ordinal number (one with {-DIch}) may be
used as a noun by itself; if that's what you're trying to do, then
you have broken the rule about never putting type 5 suffixes on the
first noun of a noun-noun construction. This entire sentence should be
scrapped and the idea should be used to build a new one.
I'd use two sentences here. After fixing the numbers and substituting
the noun {QIH} for your misapplied verb {Qaw'}, I come up with this:
{pumpu' wa'netlh javSaD janHommey. QIH lIngpu' pagh.}
"Sixteen thousand minor devices have fallen. None have produced damage."
>vumbogh Duj'e' neH qIplu'.
"One hits only the *ship* which toils."
You used {Qap} earlier, which is much more appropriate than {vum} for
the idea of "operational". I don't see that the topic suffix {-'e'}
helps here; in fact, it seems to confuse me into thinking "Only the
*ship*? As opposed to what?" {neH} does a good job of indicating
that you are considering the ships which function, and none others.
Guess what? Your English translation confirms what I suspected from
context -- the ships are plural, so they require the {lu-} prefix. :-)
> The orbit of Earth has lots of garbage. They were unoperated satelits
>and pieces of ships.
> 4.100 are working well. 8.000 are bigger than a handm 110.000
>has a lenght of a hand and 35 million is smaller than a hand.
> Most of these garbages will fall down over the suface or our
>planet and pehaps they cause accidents(destruction). Due the attrict(*),
>the artefacts are desaccelerating and the gravity will pull them back
>again toward the planet. If the artefact is very high, then it will spend
>many years to fall. The most of them were destroyed as soon as they
>enter in atmosphere and the remaining were lost in the oceans.
> Noone from the 16.000 artefacts which fallen caused accidents.
>Only the operational ships are hit.
Not bad, Edy. You made two consistent errors, both of which are
easily corrected. You need to remember when to use the "they/it"
prefix {lu-}, and you need to work on how to say large numbers.
Now that the grammatical analysis of your note is complete, I'd like
to point out that Star Trek V used the phrase {ngeHbej DI}, literally
"cosmos' litter", to mean "space garbage".
I suppose I should give you some sentences to work on. :-) Try these:
Your friend ate my lunch.
The workers breathed smoke.
We lost our money.
Five targs entered their house.
The waiters pour the liquor.
The liquor wets the glasses.
The clock has a face and hands.
The troops defeated the enemy.
A Vulcan saw my sisters.
My sisters saw a Vulcan.
The soldiers lost the battle.
Be careful -- I set a couple of traps for you. :-)
Now reread carefully the section in TKD which describes numbers and
the number-forming suffixes, and practice translating numbers like
four thousand seven hundred twenty (4,720), and two hundred eighteen
thousand six hundred five (218,605).
-- ghunchu'wI' (Edy's mentor)