tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Dec 15 10:15:14 1998
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Re: Everybody's favorite verb suffixes - The rovers
- From: "William H. Martin" <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: Everybody's favorite verb suffixes - The rovers
- Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:15:05 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
- In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
- Priority: NORMAL
On Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:10:25 -0800 (PST) Steven Boozer
<[email protected]> wrote:
> : I have a few questions concerning -qu' and -be' , regarding their
> : meaning after various suffixes...
> : Also, an you have more than one -be' or -qu' in a single word?
>
> No, I don't believe so. (Is there a rule to this effect somewhere in TKD?)
There is no such rule, and I believe this is too strong a
statement to not attract a counter-argument. The more simple
truth is:
1. Okrand didn't tell us either way.
2. Okrand does not tend to give us a lot of canon examples with
words with lots of suffixes, so the odds of him giving us words
with two instances of a {-be'} or a {-qu'} are rather low.
3. Most of the time when you would be tempted to use two {-be'}
or two {-qu'}, you can find a simpler approach that would make
that unnecessary. Most likely, even if there is no rule against
doing this and it is perfectly grammatical to do this, it is
probably bad form.
Another way to say this is that the point in Klingon is not to
pile as many suffixes onto a word as it can handle (though
sometimes the shades of meaning you get from this are really
interesting). The point is to express an idea clearly. You only
load up a word with lots of suffixes if you want someone to
pause on that word and absorb the interaction between its
pieces. If you are trying to get someone to quickly understand
what you are saying, other approaches are better.
Today, I almost said, {jIQochbe'chu'be'} and thought better of
it and instead said, {tlhoS jIQochbe'.} It is simpler and
expresses my thought more clearly. The first choice would have
been lazy on my part, taking a random verb and once it was
chosen, piling on suffixes until it meant what I wanted. Let the
reader work to figure it out.
The second choice took a second effort to go back and reconsider
my word choice. Instead of translating "I do not perfectly
agree," treating {Qochbe'} as if it were a root verb meaning
"agree" (and it is not a root verb), I went back to the root
verb {Qoch} and rethought a more accurate, simpler to understand
meaning. "We almost don't disagree". You may choose to translate
that as "We almost agree", but that's not how I thought of it
the second time around, and the main point is, you can
understand it easier and faster.
And lastly, I have to recommend a shift in your approach to a
language. When a baby begins to learn English, it doesn't ask
for a list of meanings for all the suffixes and their
combinations before it starts learning to speak. Klingon is not
a code. You can't just learn all the pieces and then assemble
them into a whole.
It is better to just try to say simple things using the language
and add more elements to those simple statements as your
expertise increases. Don't look immediately for all the global
rules and elements now and you'll worry about figuring out how
to say things later. That is definitely not how it works. You
won't really learn rules without using them. You won't really
learn vocabulary without using it.
Use it.
If you want to learn Klingon, just use it. Start very small. Say
very simple things and get feedback as to whether you are doing
this right yet.
In particular, just use verbs and prefixes first. Start adding
suffixes as you need them. Use nouns and add suffixes as you
need them. Use helping words as you need them.
Try to describe something that you are thinking about in simple
terms (a story, a joke, an anecdote, an observation, a thought,
whatever) and say the parts you can say in Klingon (and if
you are a real beginner or otherwise unsure people will
figure out what you mean, include the English translation) and
if you get stuck on something, give the English for what you
want to say and ask for hints on how you could say that in
Klingon.
But if you don't show a willingness to go through the effort of
translating something into Klingon, we won't have much reason to
translate a bunch of stuff for you. It is annoying to have
people post nothing in Klingon and then, in English, say, "So,
how do you say X in Klingon?" Give us a paragraph in Klingon
with a missing sentence and ask us how to translate that
sentence and we'll likely be more accommodating, unless we see
so many problems in what you've translated that we feel it would
be in your best interest to just spend the learning experience
straightening out what you did manage to try to translate...
The point is, use the language. Don't examine all the parts
before you start using it. You won't be able to successfully
juggle them in your mind until you have the experience of
writing simpler things.
[End of rant.]
> _________________________________________________________________________
> Voragh "Grammatici certant et adhuc sub judice
> Ca'Non Master of the Klingons lis est." Horace (Ars Poetica)
charghwI' 'utlh