tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Nov 24 10:39:11 1997
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Re: understanding {-lu'}
- From: "Robyn Stewart" <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: understanding {-lu'}
- Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 10:39:03 PST
- Organization: NLK Consultants, Inc.
- Priority: normal
peHruS wrote:
> In a message dated 97-11-24 01:34:21 EST, ghunchu'wI' writes:
>
> << Saying that {-lu'} doesn't translate as passive voice is wrong.
> It isn't *defined* as passive voice, but stating that it doesn't
> *mean* the same as passive voice is being unnecessarily picky,
> perhaps to the point of losing sight of the underlying concept in
> some cases. >>
>
> I still maintain that {-lu'} is not the English-type "passive
> voice." The Klingon way of thinking is that it is an indication of
> an indefinite subject. The passive voice construction usually still
> indicates who the subject is by adding ".... by the subject." For
> example, "The enemy officer was killed by the Klingon soldiers."
> The tlhIngan Hol {-lu'} suffix can only go so far as to express
> "The enemy officer was killed." We do not have a module for "... by
> the Klingon soldiers."
If I could think of a reason to want to use an indirect object for
this meaning and not simply say:
jagh yaS luHoH tlhIngan negh
I would say
tlhIngan neghmo' jagh yaS HoHlu'
This could also refer to the enemy officer being killed by his own
superior because he had Klingon soldiers in his tent, but the English
"The enemy officer was killed by the Klingon soldiers" could just as
well mean that he was killed while they were standing nearby (as in
"... killed by that bush.")
And FWIW I consider {-lu'} to be passive voice. It does what English
passive voice does: allows an action to be described without being
specific about its subject. Klingon passive voice happens to have an
ability English passive voice doesn't: it can describe an action that
has no object. I believe the term "passive voice" isn't in TKD
because Marc Okrand was making an effort to avoid grammar
terminology.
{lu'} lo'nIStaH'a' tlhIngan QeD ghojwI'pu'?
ghojwI' ngong paqHom:
raSDaq yIH lanlu' 'ej chor SIjlu'.
wa' tIq teqlu'.
chorgh *ghram* ngI' net tu'.
(English-speaking science students are taught to use passive voice
only in laboratory notebooks)
- Qov
Robyn Stewart [email protected]
NLK Technical Library ph. (604) 689-0344 fax (604) 443-1000
NLK Consultants Inc. 855 Homer Street, Vancouver BC V6B 5S2