tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Mar 26 00:41:08 1997

Back to archive top level

To this year's listing

[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next]

Re: KLBC: "tu'lu'" with plurals

David Trimboli wrote:
> jatlh qoror:
> > I have a question.  When "tu'lu'" is used with plurals, shouldn't it
> > be "lutu'lu'?" Or has it evolved into a relatively independent term?[...]
> Yes, we believe that {tu'lu'} is a semi-independent verb.  After all,
> in the very first example for it, which is meant to illustrate its use,
> we see {puqpu' tu'lu'}.

And in the paragraph which introduces {tu'lu'} it says specifically
`a third-person singular subject pronoun'.

> SuvwI'pu' qan tu'lu'be'   (TKW)
> (Notice that if you think of this as {tu'} + {-lu'}, you're negating
> {-lu'}, which doesn't seem to make any sense.  However, if {tu'lu'}
> is a distinct verb, then you're negating this verb.)

The scope of {-be'} shouldn't be restricted to the preceding morpheme:
it follows the concept being negated (_tKD_:46), which may consist of
more than one suffixes and/or the verb stem.  {tu'lu'be'} amounts to
`it is not the case that [someone finds ...]', thus `no one finds ...'.

> We also know that {tu'lu'} can also act as {tu'} + {-lu'}:
> 
> QuvlIjDaq yIH tu'be'lu'jaj   (PK)
> (Admittedly, this is a toast, and is possibly subject to special
> grammatical rules.  If that's what is happening here, it's rather
> funny: the special grammatical rules are making the sentence look
> almost like what it is supposed to be!)

Actually, {tu'be'lu'} comes across as `someone doesn't find ...' (but
perhaps someone else does), so I do hope there are special grammatical
rules at work here.

> I don't believe Mark Okrand has ever used {lutu'lu'}.  I cannot find
> any such reference.  If you use it, it will be logically correct, but
> since we don't see it, I suspect it may not be used.

I suspect that would have the literal sense of `are found, discovered'.

Talking of leaving out {lu-}, what do people think of {mIch 'elpu'
jay'!}, glossed as `They've entered the #$%@ sector!' (_tKD:178_)?

--'Iwvan

-- 
"reH Sov yInej 'ej Dap yImuS,          <dOstI bA mardom-e dAnA nEkO-st,
 jagh val qaq law' jup QIp qaq puS"     do^sman-e dAnA beh az nAdAn dOst>
                 (Sheikh Muslihuddin Abu Muhammad Abdullah Saadi Shirazi)
Ivan A Derzhanski                             <[email protected]>
H: cplx Iztok bl 91, 1113 Sofia, Bulgaria <http://www.math.acad.bg/~iad/>
W: Dept for Math Lx, Inst for Maths & CompSci, Bulg Acad of Sciences

Back to archive top level