tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu Mar 13 10:57:58 1997
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Re: ram QeH
- From: Steven Boozer <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: ram QeH
- Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 12:55:29 -0600 (CST)
: ghItlh DaQtIq
: > jIHvaD jangqa' SuSvaj:
: > >> >QeHlIj vIyajbej. be'pu' mIgh law' vISov. QeHlIj yajlaH Hoch
: > >> >loDpu'. 'ach mIgh Hoch be'pu' 'e' teHbe'.
: > >> 'e' vIlaj. mIghbe' be'pu'. quvHa' neH.
: > >
: > ><quvHa'>? mu'vam Dalo' DaneH'a'.
: > >Are they "dishonored" or "dishonorable"?
: >
: > hmmmmm... Good question...
: >
: > In TKW p179 we find: <noH ghoblu'DI' yay quv law' Hoch quv puS.>
: > which is translated as: "In war, there is nothing more honorable
: > than victory."
:
: Ah, yes. This is a case where the meanings of "honored", and "honorable"
: are similar. However, with your example, <quvHa' be'pu'> to me this
: implies that some affront has been committed against the women. It sounds
: like they have been wronged, "dishonored", rather than doing the
: dishonoring.
:
: > So i think the blade cuts both ways. But i defer to Voragh, Canon
: > Master for a more complete analysis. It seems to me that there may
: > be something recent in the mailing list archives about <batlh> and
: > <quv>.
:
: nuq 'oH vuDlIj'e' voragh?
:
: SuSvaj
You're right, I tried to start a thread a few weeks back on all the Klingon
terms for honor and their proper use, but it didn't seem to catch fire.
Funny, I thought Klingons *liked* talking about their honor, the nature of
honor, what is and isn't honorable, etc. to the endless fascination of
offworlders. {{:-)
To answer your request, here is what I have on <quvHa'>:
quvHa' be dishonored (vb.) TKW
quvHa'ghach dishonor (n.) TKW
quvHa'moH dishonor (vb.) TKW
- qaStaHvIS wej puq poHmey vav puqloDpu' puqloDpu'chaj je quvHa'moH vav
quvHa'ghach
The dishonor of the father dishonors his sons and their sons for three
generations. TKW
So, SusVaj seems to be right (if I've followed the threading correctly):
<quvHa' be'pu'> must mean "The women are dishonored" (i.e. they're in a
dishonored state). To say that the women dishonored someone else, you would
say <quvHa'moH be'pu'> (i.e. they "dissed" him Klingon style!).
As the Vulcans say, "The honor is to serve."
-- Voragh