tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Jun 02 12:24:48 1997

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Re: KLBC: Words for assassin & blade

Mark E. Shoulson wrote:
> 
> >David Trimboli wrote:
> >>
> >> [email protected] on behalf of Jim LeMaster wrote:
> >>
> >> >    Is there a specific word (for "Assassin"), or should(/could) it be translated something like:
> >> >    batlhbe' HoHwI'  <one who kills dishonorably>
> >>
> >> I see no reason to assume that Klingon assassins are viewed as having no honor.  
> >(Jim Again):I would beg to differ on this one.   
>>There is a line (from a ST:TNG episode something like:) "Poison or an
> >assassin's blade in
> >the back is not the way of honorable warriors!" is the line that sticks
> >in my head.
> 
> Um, what's with the English-Klingon one-to-one correspondence you're both
> presuming here?  Who ever promised there would BE a word (especially a
> single word) for "assassin"?  What IS an assassin anyway?  You can't
> translate what you don't understand.  
********Which is the reason for the original request.  SOMETHING in
tlhIngan Hol should mean "assassin" if there is an object called an
"assassin's blade/knife".
Form follows function and language follows culture.  There is a need to
distinguish an assassin's knife from a warrior's knife, so there
*should* be a way to express the difference.  I do not think that
"killer" (HoHwI') would be translated as Assassin.  Killers are not
always assassins, though assasssins are always killers.  Assassin comes
from Hashishem (sp?), a very special kind of killer from the 12th
Century.  Indian Thuggees were religious killers, but not assassins, for
they preferred random acts of murder. 

> What's a good Klingon word for "assassin"?  I'd go with "chotwI'" most of
> the time, perhaps "HoHwI'" in some situations.  If I had to say that the
> murderer acted secretly and underhandedly, I would say so, straight out,
> and not try to cram all that meaning into the noun phrase.  Do you honestly
> want to have to say "But unbeknownst to Kruge, there was a
> one-who-kills-from-shadows hiding in the shadows behind him.  As he began
> his speech, the one-who-kills-from-shadows aimed his pistol carefully and
> fired, killing the noble captain.  The one-who-kills-from-shadows leapt
> from his hiding place and cried out, 'I am a half-breed, and Chester Arthur
> is now leader of the High Council!'"???  Wouldn't it make more sense to say
> "There was a murderer hiding in the shadows behind him..." and just leave
> it as "murderer"?  

My only comment here is that IS what us new learners are told to do - be
verbose and use many discriptive words where "simpler" constructs are
repeatedly attacked as being vague or unintelligible.
 
>Why are we looking to mirror English in Klingon?  A
> dishonorable killer is a dishonorable killer, a secret killer is a secret
> killer, a slayer of a major figure is a slayer of a major figure, and it's
> all pretty straightforward.
> 
> ~mark

Once again, this is rather off from the original question "what is the
tlhIngan Hol for the "assassin's knife."?  However, I am not looking to
mirror English, so much as mirror the concept.  Culture and environment
mold a people.  "English/Caucasian" culture was/is war-like and as such
has many words for killing and violence:  
   killer (generic - one who kills something)
   murderer (one who kills another being outside the law)
   executioner (one who kills another being within the law)
   soldier (one who kills justifiably in time of war)
   war-criminal (one who kills unjustifiably in time of war)
   terrorist (one who kills randomly for politics)
   mercenary (one who fights/kills merely for money)
   infanticide, patricide, matricide, regicide (justifiable killing of
Regis 
                                                Philbin {{:-))
The list is nearly endless.  Other warrior cultures of Earth have
similar pre-occupations.  Samarai could kill peasants with impunity, but
not other samarai or lords. Native American tribes, Asian mongols, and
African tribes go/went to great lengths to distinguish killing in war
(battles) and killing inside the "family." 

A war-like/warrior society should, I beleive, tend to define "killing"
(a major goal of the martial training) and the types of killers. 
Killing is not always straight forward; motives, goals and victims
change the meaning.  Cowardly killing, ritual killing, legal and illegal
killing are very different and worthy of different names.

I do not expect a tlhIngan Hol word for "mercenary", for the knowledge
of their culture makes it a non-issue.  If a world were in perpetual
light, it's people would have no word for "night."  BUT they would have
words for shadow and darkness.  A people of war should have many words
for war.

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