tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu Dec 18 21:44:34 1997
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Re: KLBC: Short and Easy [James]
- From: Qov <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: KLBC: Short and Easy [James]
- Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 21:44:09 -0800
At 15:01 97-12-18 -0800, tlhIbwI' wrote:
}In article <[email protected]>, Robyn Stewart
}<[email protected]> writes
}>> vIta'qa'Qo'
}>
}>I'm sure that if you were asked to do this again you would refuse,
}>but this sentence is not itself a refusal. You are simply stating
}>that doing it again is something that you will not do. Do not be
}>confused by the fact that in English the auxiliary verb marking
}>future tense is the same as the verb indicating willingness.
}>
}>vIta'qa'be' - I won't do it again (or I don't do it agian, or I
}>didn't do it again)
}>
}
}Forgive me, I am stupid, but I fail to see the difference.
}
}If I wre to reword that it would be:
}
}I will not do that again in the future. Which seems to be how you've
}translated it.
}
}TKD pages 46 and 47 seem to indicate that *-Qo'* denotes refusal and
}that *-be'* denotes negative. So that -Qo' would be used in "I won't do
}it", "I wouldn't do it" or "I will not do it" and that -be' would be
}used in "I don't do it" or "I didn't do it" .
}
}Could you try and explain the difference in words of 1 syllable (or less
}if possible };) ?
The root of the confusion is the word "won't." It means more than one thing
in English. Consider the sentence:
"I won't cook supper tomorrow." With just that much information you could
tranlate it into Klingon as either:
{wa'leS 'uQ vIvutQo'}
or
{wa'leS 'uQ vIvutbe'}
The first is a refusal by the speaker to cook supper tomorrow.
The second is a statement that cooking supper is not among the activities
the speaker forsees perfoming tomorrow.
If it were in the present or past, the distinction could be translated more
easily in English:
wa'Hu' 'uQ vIvutQo' - I wouldn't cook supper yesterday.
wa'Hu' 'uQ vIvutbe' - I didn't cook supper yesterday.
In English "the prisoner will not reveal the information" is ambiguous. It
could be a report after an interrogation, or a prediction before an
interrogation. A Klingon would have to guess which was meant to translate
the sentence.
{De' 'angQo' qama'} could be "the prisoner refused to reveal the information"
"the prisoner refuses to reveal the information" or "the prisoner will
refuse to reveal the information"
{De' 'angbe' qama'} merely means that the prisoner did not reveal it, does
not reveal it, or possibly is a prediction that she will fail to reveal it
in the future. Could be because she refuses. Could be that she doesn't
know the information. Maybe she's dead.
This is my peeve of the week, so I want everyone to get it before I am
through. Don't look at the word "won't" and automatically sub in {-Qo'}.
Ask yourself: is this sentence stating that the subject refuses to perform
this action, or simply stating that the ubject isn't going to perform it in
the future? {-Qo'} is for refusal and {-be'} is for statement of fact or
prediction.
}jIquvHa''eghmoHta'
}
}(in the order R 1 4 7, I think now)
qar. :)
}I caused myself to be dishonored (I think)
}>What is the object of the verb
}>{jIpong'egh}? You or the name? If it's you, what is the function in
}>the sentence of the word James? If it's James, why is {'egh} on the
}>verb?
}>
}>You could say:
}>
}>{jIpong'eghmeH James jIjatlh} (or {vIlo'} or {vImaS}, etc.)
}
}I say (speak) James for (because/since) I call myself?
}
}Doesn't exactly convey the meaning, does it?
Not "because." That would be {-mo'}. The suffix {-meH} means "in order to,"
"for the purpose of."
"To name myself I say/use/prefer James." Slightly different than "my name is."
Perhaps: *James* 'oH pongwIj'e' 'ach jIpong'eghmeH *Jim* vIlo'.
}I think I'll stick to the one in the FAQ:
}
}tlhIbwI' 'oH pongwIj'e'
majQa'
}Thinking that *tlhIbwi'* is a good enough description of myself to
}constitute the basis of a name. (One who is incompetent, I believe).
You have to pick a name you can live with. If you're happy with perpetual
self depreciation, or having to rename yourself later, go ahead.
Qov [email protected]
Beginners' Grammarian