tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sun Nov 30 23:51:37 1997
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Re: tlhoghtay
On Sun, 30 Nov 1997, QalI' ma wrote:
|>vajpu' cha' tlhInganpu' batlh roSbogh tlhogtay wIleghmeH naDev maH.
|"We are here to witness the rite of marriage binding two honourable
| Klingon warriors."
|I can see how vajpu' and tlhInganpu' conflict, but I am not certain how
|to enter the "honourable".
cha' tlhIngan SuvwI'(pu') quv [{-pu'} is optional]
|As for roSbogh, I have no idea where I found that word. I believe I was
|trying to say "tie together" instead of "bind", but that still does not
|explain the translation.
{roS} means "lick"! Probably someone tried to analyze {ruStay} "R'uustai,
the Bonding Ritual" into {*ruS} "bonding" + {tay} "ritual". So far as we
know, {*ruS} doesn't exist as a separate word in the "modern" language, but
I wouldn't be surprised to find out it actually means "adoption". Klingon
already has several words for the idea of "bind" etc.:
bagh tie
muv join
rar connect
tay' be together
tlhej accompany
|Should it then be:
|thlIngan SuvwI'pu' cha' quv law' muv tlhoghtay wIleghmeH naDev maH.
Here's my first version of your original (using {muv}):
cha' tlhIngan SuvwI' quv muvbogh tlhoghtay wIleghmeH naDev maHtaH.
which has a hell of a long noun phrase as the object. ({-taH} is added to
pronouns to show location.) How about something like:
cha' tlhIngan SuvwI' quv muv tlhoghtay 'e' wIleghmeH naDev maHtaH.
which may be no better. Break it into two sentences maybe?
|Mark E. Shoulson wrote:
|> Also note that in KGT we're told that "vaj" only means a warrior in
|> general, sort of the Platonic Form of a warrior, not a specific person.
|Where?
Cf. KGT p. 49f for the difference between {mang}, {SuvwI'} and {vaj}.
|"The marriage ceremony joins these Klingons and their families, and the
| marriage ceremony strengthens the Empire. Who represents these warriors?"
|That is the line. Would it be:
|tlhInganpu'vam qorDu'may'chaj je muv tlhoghtay 'ej wo' HoSmoH
|tlhoghtay. SuvwI'pu'vam 'oS 'Iv?
Since you're talking about Klingons, use {tuq} "(Great) House" - FASA's
"Line" - instead of {qorDu'}, which I think of as more of a "(nuclear)
family".
tlhInganpu'vam tuqmeychaj je muv tlhoghtay. wo' HoSmoH tlhoghtay'e'.
"The marriage ceremony joins these Klingons and their Houses. It is
the marriage ceremony that strengthens the Empire."
To me, two sentences with {-'e'} marking the 2nd {tlhoghtay} feels more
formal and solemn. Personal style I guess.
|>>qIrI: qorDu'vo' QIntar, qIrI jIH, 'e' loDvam 'Iprar jIghoS.
|> I'd order it "QIntar qorDu' qIrI jIH" (or after KGT, "matay' QIntar
|> qorDu' jIH je")
|Again, where in KGT? I have read most of it, but I do not recall where
|this is.
I can't find this in KGT either. Okrand responded to a question on the MSN
Expert Forum in September (reposted on this listserv) with this formulaic
example which I think Mark is remembering:
matay' jIH molor tuq je
"I am of the House of Molor"
Again, note the use of {tuq}.
Well, these are just a few wedding thoughts off the top of my head. I'm
sure you will hear the others' opinions. {{;-)
-- Voragh