tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Sep 03 21:20:13 1996

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Re: KLBC: jIyajbe'


I've heard through the "grapevine" that this has been *heh* answered.  I'm
not going to read the rest of the thread... I will get there, when I get
there, okay?


At 04:08 AM 8/30/96 -0700, Perry J. Brulotte wrote:
><jImIS.>
>
>I am having a problem with a few certain verb suffixes, specifically the
>ones that turn a verb into a noun.
>
>I don't have a problem with <wI'> which means "thing which does" or "one
>which does".


Most people pick up on that one rather quickly, as it is very similar (if
not exactly the same) in use as English' -er.  Ie, "walk" becomes "walker", etc.


>What about <ghach>?  I have seen some confusion on when and how this
>can/should be used.  According to my TKD, it would appear that it can only
>be used when the verb has a suffix. ie:  <naDHa'ghach> for
>"discommendation".  Does this mean that it is equivalent to putting "-tion"
>in English?


Usually, yes.  It can also be similar to putting -ness (I almost put -neS
there! {{:/ ) on a noun.

I'm not sure I really want to go into when it would be which.  My personal
experience is this:  if I am about to tack -ghach on a verb, the odds are, I
can re-word my thought so that that verb is used AS A VERB.  I know; this is
avoiding the issue... but Klingon appears to be more "verb centered" than
"noun centered", like English.  Native English speakers seem to want to
convert verbs to nouns; the Klingon language seems (to me, and I think to a
number of others on this list!) to be easier to use if you keep your verbs
as *verbs*.


>What do I do when I need a noun which is roughly "thing which
>is", such as when I was working on computer terms and wanted a word for a
>"program".  I had <ghun> as a verb for "to program", but needed it to be a
>noun.  According to TKD, and what I've seen here <ghunghach> is illegal.


No, it is NOT illegal... just "highly marked".  Unfortunately, I can't think
of a good example (I suspect you already got some, though), 'cause I *am* a
native English speaker, perhaps...  basically, people will understand you,
but the will snicker at you behind their hands.


><HIQaH!>  (Help Me!)


I'm trying. {{:)


>loghDaq Suvrupbogh SuvwI'pu' chaH Hoch SuvwI'pu''e'.


"All warriors are warriors which are ready to fight in space"?

Why not just say:

        loghDaq Suvrup Hoch SuvwI'pu'
        "All warriors are ready to fight in space"?

(I really hope this is't out of TKW!)

I really hate to see a verb shoved into a -bogh construction, which is then
used in that "to be" structure... why not use the verb as a verb?  This is
what I mean by English being "noun-centered", and Klingon being
"verb-centered".  While what you have is grammatically correct, I think it
is more like something a terran tourist would say, rather than a Klingon...
theKlingon would use the verb as a verb.

(Now, watch... it WILL be out of TKW!  That thing is the bane of my
existance as BG... {{:( )


--tQ

P.S.  Don't get me wrong about TKW... I like it.  Cool sourcebook... but
it's hard when you don't have all the phrases memorized, and people are
using the quotes... you never know when you are correcting something out of
TKW!  I may tell a rather amusing story about that sometime...



---
HoD trI'Qal, tlhIngan wo' Duj lIy So' ra'wI'
Captain T'rkal, Commander IKV Hidden Comet
Klingon speaker and net junkie!
HaghtaHbogh tlhIngan yIvoqQo'!  toH... qatlh HaghtaH Qanqor HoD???
monlI'bogh tlhInganbe' yIvoqQo'!  SoHvaD monlI' trI'Qal...

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