tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Nov 18 17:15:00 1996

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Re: RE: KLBC: nuq

At 02:19 PM 11/18/96 -0800, you wrote:
>On Sun, 17 Nov 1996 18:34:16 -0800 Alan Anderson 
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> SuStel writes:
>> >>Oh dear.  You've just hit one of those snags in the Klingon language.
There
>> >>is no easy way to say "Which <noun>."
>> 
>> Adrian (HurghwI') writes:
>> >I would have suggested the following, although I like your idea as well:
>> >Ha'DIbaH 'oHbogh nuq wIje'laH.
>> >"What can we buy which is meat?"
>
>If this were acceptable (and I don't think it is), it has a 
>small error. {Ha'DIbaH 'oHbogh nuq'e' wIje'laH.} You need the 
>{-'e'} on the subject of any "to be" verb. Meanwhile, this 
>creates a problem if you ever want the head noun of the *"to 
>be"bogh* to be the object of the *"to be"bogh*.

The obvious solution to this seems to be to switch the order.

>In general, I avoid {-bogh}ing "to be" verbs whenever possible. 
>I just take it as an alarm that if I'm depending on the verb "to 
>be" in this way, then I'm wearing a little too much of an 
>English mindset.
>
>I still prefer to convert English questions with an 
>adjectival question word "Which" into commands in Klingon:
>
>Ha'DIbaH wIje'bogh yIwIv.
>
>Choose the meat which we will buy.
>
>This really is the same thing as asking, "Which meat should we 
>buy?" If you are asking them to choose, then you are 
>politely telling them to choose, and Klingons don't care about 
>being polite. Meanwhile, we can do this without having to make 
>up any new grammar or vocabulary.

This isn't what I was translating, though. The question "What meat can we
buy" is directed to the seller, and you'd never ask them "What meat should
we buy." The meaning is different. That's why I also suggested the "Show us
your meat" phrase.

>> [SFX: a brain being stretched into a new position]
>> 
>> That's a remarkable way to try to translate "which".  I'll have to
>> let it percolate for a while, but at first glance I kind of like it.
>
>vIpar jIH!
>
>> {DujlIj Qaw'ta' HoD ghaHbogh 'Iv?} "Which captain destroyed your ship?"
>
>DujlIj Qaw'ta' HoD yI'ang!
>
>or, according to the MSN definition:
>
>DujlIj Qaw'ta' HoD yImagh!
>
>> {nuH 'oHbogh nuq Dalo' DaneH?} "Which weapon do you want to 
>use?"
>
>nuH yIwIv!
>
>Forget weapons. Anyone saying {nuH 'oHbogh nuq Dalo' DaneH} 
>would be strangled on the spot. They would be throttled to 
>death. Nothing less personal would satisfy the one asked this 
>convoluted, suspicious, perhaps devious question.

I never intended to imply that my construction was the best for any "which"
situation. However, I think it is fine for the original translation.

>> The first isn't quite as concise as {DujlIj Qaw'ta'bogh HoD'e' yIngu'},
>> and the second isn't anywhere near as simple as {nuH yIwIv}, of course.
>
>toH bIlIjpu'be'! maj! And {ngu'} is good. I always forget that 
>word...
>
>> Using a "to be" construction like this seems pretty contrived, but it
>> also seems to convey exactly the meaning intended.
>
>In a convoluted, polite, wittering, human kind of way, perhaps.

That's why I suggested a "polite, wittering, human kind of way" and a
Klingon way. Besides, your idea of having the seller choose your meat for
you doesn't make you sound very in control of the situation. {{;-)}
 
>> -- ghunchu'wI'
>
>charghwI'

-Adrian K (aka HurghwI')
      Stardate 96883.0
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   / /    \ \  [email protected]
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