tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sun Nov 03 19:03:53 1996

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RE: KLBC: mughmey

>Before I say anything else, let me point out that the subject line of this 
>message has a noun suffix attached to a verb.  This is illegal.  The attempt 
>was to say "translations," but this is not the way to do it.  {mugh} is not a 
>noun.

I was actually kind of using non-canon when I used mugh as a noun. I
couldn't attach {-ghach} to it because it has no suffixes. I assumed the
noun suffix would make it clear that this isn't used as a verb.


>In Klingon, it helps to be specific.  Be specific, and the grammar falls into 
>place.  Be vague, and you can't say much.  Instead of saying "translations," 
>tell us what you are translating.  If you're translating a story, say {lut 
>vImugh}.  If you're translating a proverb, say {vIttlhegh vImugh}.  Klingon 
>loves to use verbs, not nouns.  This can be difficult for English-speakers, 
>since English is very noun-oriented.

>jatlh HurghwI':
>
>>  mu'meyvam lughbe'chugh jIH yIja'!
>
>There are two parts to this sentence, and I will address them one at a time.  
>The first is the clause, *{mu'meyvam lughbe'chugh}.  You are obviously trying 
>to say "If these words are not right."  Now, the verb is {lugh} "be correct."  
>What is correct?  "These words."  Klingon sentence order is 
>OBJECT-VERB-SUBJECT.  If "these words" are the subject, as they are here, then 
>they need to go *after* the verb:
>
>{lughbe'chugh mu'meyvam}
>
>Next, you gave a command: *{jIH yIcha'}.  Look at the imperative verb prefix 
>table on TKD 34.  Since the object of "tell me" is "me," you have placed the 
>{jIH} in the right position.  But the verb prefix is wrong.  Object "me" means 
>you need to use the prefix {HI-}.  "Tell me" is {HIja'}.  It's a complete 
>coincidence that it is also the word for "yes."
>
>Therefore, this whole sentence should be
>
>{lughbe'chugh mu'meyvam, jIH HIja'}

Obviously right; I wasn't thinking.

>>  "Why do some people have a nose which runs and feet which smell while >  
>others
>>  have a nose which smells and feet which run?"
>>
>>  qatlh qetbogh ghIch He'bogh qamDu' je ghajtaH vay'pu' larghbogh ghIch
>>  qetbogh qamDu' je ghajtaHvIS pImbogh vay'pu'?
>
>Oh boy.  This joke cannot work in Klingon.  We don't know if Klingons say that 
>noses "run" or "flood" or "fill" or what.  A nose "running" is an idiom.  
>Also, the words for "smell (sense odors)" and "smell (emit odors)" are 
>different in Klingon, and the joke is based on this idea.
>
>However, the grammar is pretty good.  The only thing I'd suggest is adding the 
>word {'ej} "and" between {vay'pu'} and {larghbogh}.  Otherwise, it's something 
>of a run-on sentence, and is difficult to follow.
>
>I, for one, love Klingon puns.  But they've got to be funny in Klingon!

I was not intending to create a pun. I just thought the sentence would be
interesting to translate. If I had even tried to make it funny in Klingon, I
obviously would have had to use the same word for both "smells," and I didn't.

>>  "I will meet you at the place where the sun rises."
>>
>>  SaSwI' qIH Hovmaj. pa' SoH qaghom jIH
>>
>>  {I'm not sure how to turn a sentence into a preposition of location. Is
>>  there a  suffix for "where" in this sense?}
>
>There is no suffix for "where."  It's best for you to recast the sentence 
>until it is in a form that Klingon can use.
>
>This just requires a bit of recasting, and the recognition that it's a poetic 
>statement.  You cannot meet me "where the sun rises."  The sun does not 
>"rise"; the planet turns.  Even if it did rise, you cannot get there.  It's 
>not *on* the planet.
>
>However, the sentence has merit.  You have used {qIH} to mean "meet," which 
>was an interesting idea, but without the English translation, I'd be 
>hard-pressed to realize that {SaSwI'} meant "horizon."  Even then, {qIH} means 
>"meet for the first time."  The sun appears to "meet" the horizon every day, 
>so I woud say that {ghom} would be the verb for this purpose.

It seems pretty obvious that the sentence cannot be literally true. I was,
once again, using it as merely a translation excercise. I used qIH to
indicate "where the sun _rises_." Because the sun rises at the horizon each
morning, this is the first time, in a sense, that it meets the horizon.

>However, I'd like to suggest a different approach.  You could say something 
>like {taghDI' Hoch jaj, nargh Hovmaj.  bIngDajDaq qaghom.}  "Our star appears 
>at the beginning of each day. I'll meet you below it."  A more literal 
>translation of this would be rendered as "As soon as each day begins, our star 
>appears.  I will meet you at its area-below."  Again, it's a somewhat "poetic" 
>way to say things, but then it's a poetic sentiment.

It seems to me that this could convey that you'll meet them at noon. 

>SuStel
>Stardate 96843.2
>

-Adrian K (aka HurghwI') {{:-)}

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