tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Jun 19 09:21:09 1996
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Re: thursday:today
- From: Will Martin <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: thursday:today
- Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 12:21:53 -0400 ()
- Priority: NORMAL
On Tue, 18 Jun 1996 10:10:51 -0700 [email protected] wrote:
> As a very pitiful example of a newbie in the language I recognise
> exactly what Lawrence is driving at. The first step is to try for the
> the word by word tlhIngan into English, then one has to make it a
> tlhIngan sentence--meaning, change the words used to the concept needing
> to be expressed.
Please allow me to suggest a completely different approach.
Instead of starting with an English sentence, looking up
the words, then trying to twist them into Klingon grammar,
it might be better for you to start out reading about
Klingon grammar. Next, find some words which you might
consider to fit into the slots in the specific grammatical
example you are working with. Your goal is not to translate
a sentence. Your goal is to learn a language. Sentences
will follow.
You can learn to make good sentences once you have learned
the language and its grammar. You cannot learn the language
and its grammar through repeated experiences of writing bad
sentences by leaping ahead without learning the grammar
first and just looking the words up in the dictionary.
After all, TKD puts the word list AFTER the tutorials for
the grammar. This was not accidental or arbitrary. I read
TKD from front to back. Each time I reread it, I do so from
front to back. I highly recommend that you do the same.
When a child learns a language, they don't start out with a
sentence in mind and then look up the words in a dictionary
and then try to learn the grammar. First they learn some
nouns and exclamatory words. "Dog." "No." "Yes." (They
always learn "no" before "yes".) Next, they learn simple
grammar for simple sentences. "Dog runs". "I want cookie."
So, learn some exlammatory words, like {HIja'}, {ghobe'},
{maj}, {majqa'} and perhaps {wejpuH}. You don't need to
learn any grammar to use them. They are sentences unto
themselves and do not vary in form.
Next, learn the grammar for a simple sentence and learn a
few verbs and nouns to use them with. Don't start out
wanting to say a specific thing and try to look up the
words for it. Instead, start out learning a few words and
how to use them. Keep it very simple.
Start to learn more grammar as soon as you feel like you
are getting bored with the grammar you already know. Look
up only words which you feel you can fit into the grammar
you understand, and begin to memorize the words you find
yourself naturally using.
TKD, The Klingon Dictionary does a good job of introducing
grammatical concepts in stages. So learn the grammar as it
is introduced and learn words to fit that grammar. Don't
try to learn words first and hack at the grammar later, and
don't try to leap ahead, skipping simpler grammar in order
to get to what you think will express the complex English
sentence you have in mind. In doing so, you only prove your
own folly and test the patience of people who have been
doing this for years.
I would far prefer to read reams of simple Klingon text
with a few errors here and there than to read any pile of
ugly words jammed together with no concept of the language.
I had a dream that this list would once be dominated by
Klingon text in varying complexity where people learn by
example and continually try to express things perhaps only
slightly beyond their current grasp. Krankor did more to
inspire that dream during the one month he wrote ONLY in
Klingon than anyone else has done before or since. My
current life does not afford me the resources to try to do
the same, though perhaps soon...
Instead, the list is dominated by posts that are entirely
in English, mostly unrelated to the langauge at all. If
they are related to the langauge, they favor philosophical
discussion about the language rather than good examples OF
the language. I am in part to blame (this message is a
case in point). I'm hoping that owning a private space will
afford me more time to do better in the near future.
The current methods are not only failing to raise the
global Klingon literacy on the list but those who CAN write
well in the langauge are either driven away, or encouraged
to remain silent or write in English. I've learned more
about Jamaican language and culture in the past few weeks
than about Klingon language. The list is full of witty
one-liners followed by huge .sig files rather than much
serious discourse about or in Klingon. I see egos more than
respect for or interest in the language and it makes me
tired.
charghwI'