tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sat Jun 17 18:42:47 1995
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Re: Beowulf
Sat, 17 Jun 1995, ghItlh 'anreyaS:
I picked up a bi-lingual copy of Beowulf. I think the trick to
translating this is to compare the meaning of the words used in the
original Old English. Some of the modern English translations I have seen
don't faithfully convey the original meaning. The down side to this is
that my knowledge of Old English is woefully inadequate and I haven't
gotten my hands on a really good Old English dictionary and grammar yet.
> > Thu, 15 Jun 1995, ghItlh 'anreyas:
> >
> > > toH! jaj tIQ HoS qumwI'pu' la'mey *Dene-mo' DIQoypu', toDuj luqeqbogh
> > > joHpu'vetlh tIgh'e'.
> >
> > "We really hear them because of *Dene of the commanders scattered about of
> > the governors of power of the ancient day, the custom of those lords
> > which practice bravery."
> >
> va! My mistake. For "la'mey" read "la'pu'", I have used the wrong
> plural here, there is nothing in the original to imply the commanders
> are scattered all about. La'pu' is used to translate princes
> (athelingas), later on I use la'quv to gloss king.
The two Old Enlish sources I've checked translates <aethelingas> as
"nobles, noblemen" therefore I would use {chuQun}.
> Modern tlhingan Hol
> appears to egalitarian enough that if you can seize and hold power it's
> yours, no matter chuQunlij. La' and la'quv seemed to me to be better
> analogies than qumwi' and ta'/voDleH, which implies to me a role on a
> planetary scale whereas here the Dene (Danish people) are no more than a
> tribe.
On the other hand, I understand that the Anglo-Saxons did have a classed
society. I prefer using {qumwI'} or {ta'Hom} for King. I think they are
also using {ta'} for King in the Hamlet restoration project.
> Qu'vatlh! qumwi'pu' should have been deleted! It was my original
> attempt to translate princes which I then replaced with la'pu'.
> toH! is used to translate hwat (rhymes with hat not modern English
> what), a poetic old english word meaning lo! indeed!
> jaj tIQ is meant to understood adverbially, as in appendix 6.7: in
> ancient days, or, in days of yore.
I suspected that's what you meant. Perhaps you could say {Hu'mey tIQ}.
> tIgh'e' was used to translate "how" used as a relative adverb.
Klingon has no such construction. To say "We hear how they
practiced bravery", I would say {yoHtaH chaH 'e' wIja'lu'.}
> > > pIj qaS jaghpu'vo' quSmey HIq nge' *SIlDe Seyving, qaS Sungpu'vo';
> >
> > "It often occurs; *SIlDe SeyvIng takes away the liquor of the chairs from
> > the enemies, from the natives it happens."
> >
> You have caught another error, for qaS read QaS troops. I am worse at
> this than I expected.
> quSmey HIq is a gloss of mead-benches, an important concept. The
> great hall was filled with benches where warriors sat to join in the
> beerfeasts and received treasure from their lord. Basically what is
> implied here is that the quSmey HIq became the spoils of conquest. I
> have seen nothing that implies that Klingons have similar concepts from
> what I have seen, but I imagine the concept would be meaningful within
> their culture.
I would do it like this:
pIj jaghpu'vo' Sungpu'vo' je HIqquSmey(1) nge' *SIlDe SeyvIng.
(Often Scyld Scefing took away the liquor-chairs from the enemies and
from the natives.)
(1) {HIqquSmey} <OE: meodo-setla> "mead-benches"
> > > *'erol HajmoH, wa'logh pagh ghajbogh lutu'lu'DI';
> >
> > "It made *'erol dread; once when one finds (_) has nothing"
> The second half of the sentence should read "once when
> (after) he was found possessing nothing.
I would say: pagh ghaj ghaH tu'lu'pu'DI'. (When he had been found, he
possessed nothing.)
> > > vaj pop noblu':
> >
> > "in that case a reward is given"
> >
> The original reads "for this he was given comfort". The above is my
> closest translation.
How about:
ghu'vetlhmo' ghaH QaHlu'. (Because of that situation, he was given aid.)
> > > logh bIng qanmoH, batlhvaD chep, lobnISpa' Hoch ba'wI'pu' pa' bIQ'a' Hur,
> > > ghaHDaq van lunob: la'quv QaQ loDvetlh!
> >
> > "It causes the area under the space to be old, it prospers for the honor,
> > before the ones who sit of all need to obey, outside the ocean
> > thereabouts, they give a salute on him/her: that man of the good supreme
> > commander."
> >
> It should read "he grew under heaven, prospered in honour, until all
> the neigbouring people over the ocean had to obey him, they gave him
> tribute: that was a good king!
> The first phrase is the closest approximation for concepts that have
> not yet been recorded. Possibly "qo'Daq qanmoH" would be an accurate
> reading, if not a literal one. The second phrase should have been
> "batlh chep" as honour here is best understood adverbially.
I looked this one up because I was thinking maybe "He grew under heaven"
meant he prospered through divine providence, but I found out that
"wolcen" simply means clouds or sky. {qanmoH} means to cause to be old,
to age something.
I would stick to the original "weox under wolcnum" and say {chal bIngDaq
tInchoHtaH ghaH 'ej balth chep.} (He grew (continuously became big) under
the sky and prospered with honor.)
> Actually the subject of the third phrase would read better as Hoch
> ba'wi'mey bIQ'a', the original literally means "each of those who
> sit/dwell about over the whale-road".
This is a neat metaphor which unfortunately gets totally lost in translation.
I would say:
vaj ghaHvaD van lunob bIQ'a' Dop Hop toqmoHbogh ghotpu''e'. ta'Hom(2) QaQ
ghaH. (Thus the people which inhabit the far side of the ocean gave him
tribute. He was a good lesser-emperor.)
(2) ta'Hom <OE: cyning> "king"
> > > vaj bo'DIjDaq Qup'e' bogh
> > > puqloD loDvetlhvaD, popvaD ngeHpu'bogh joH'a', Seng'a'mo' legh, wa'logh
> > > poH nI'vaD la'quv ghajbe'bogh SIQ; ghaHvaD quv qo' nob joh'a' yIn,
> > > che'wI' batlh; noy *beyo - noyqu' batlh puq SIlDe, *SeDen-Daq. Vaj
> > > QaQnISmoH loD Qup, nobmey mIp'e', QorghtaHvis vav, poH ghoSDI' veS QaH
> > > juppu'vam QaQqu', qumwi'chaj toy'jaj 'e'; chepnIS loD Qapmeyvo'.
> > >
> Then was born to that one a son young in the courts, whom God(joH'a')
> had sent to that people for a comfort(popvaD), saw because of great
> distress, once they had endured that they had not had a king (la'quv)
> for a long time; the lord of life, ruler of glory(batlh) gave worldly
> glory (quv qo');
You would have to be VERY lenient with the grammar to put multiple
relative clause on a single head noun to match the original. I would divide
these interminably long sentences and successive relative clauses into
smaller sentences.
bo'DIjmeyDaq Qupbogh puqloD boghmoH ghaH. ghotpu' QaHmeH ghaH ngeH
joH'a'(3), Sot chaH 'e' leghmo', ta' ghajbe'taHvIS taHmo' chaH. vaj
qo'quv(4) nob quv che'wI' ghaHbogh yInjoH(5).
(He bore a son who was young in the courts. The great Lord sent him to aid
the people because he saw they were distressed, because they continuously
endured while not having a king. The Life-lord, who was the ruler of
honor, gave world-honor.)
(3) joH'a' <OE: God> "God"
(4) qo'quv <OE: worold-ar> "worldly honor"
(5) yInjoH <OE: Lif-frea> "Life-lord"
> Beow (beyo) was famous - the honour of Scyld's son was
> widely known, in Sceden-land (SeDen). So needs a young man to make
> good, with rich gifts, while a father still cares for (_), in time those
> willing (QaQqu') friends will help when war comes, that they may serve
> their governor; by deeds must a man prosper.
noy *beyo *SeDenyoSDaq noymo' *SIlDe puqloD quv. vaj QaHmeH tlhejwI'pu' QaQ
veS ghoSDI', qumwI'chaj lutoy'meH, nobmey lo'laH lo'taHvIS QaQmoHnIS loD
Qup, ghaH SaHtaHvIS vavDaj. Dat ghom'a'meyDaq(6) ta'mey quvmo' chepnISlu'.
(Beow was famous because the honor of the son of Scyld was widely known in
Scedenland. So, in order for good companions to help when war comes, in
order for them to serve their governor, a young man needs to make good
while using valuable gifts, while his father cares about him. In large
groups everywhere one needs to prosper due to honored accomplishments.)
(6) ghom'a' <OE: maegth> "tribe"
Here I used {tlhejwI'} (companion) for "gesith", instead of {jup} (friend).
I also used {ta'mey quv} (honored accomplishments) for "lof-daed"
(praiseworthy-deed) and {-lu'} for the indefinite subject pronoun "man".
I would love to see Beowulf written in Klingon. But if I undertake a
project, I want to do it right. If I were going to translate Beowulf
into Klingon, I would want to adhere as closely as possible to the
original Old English. But to figure out the meaning of the original Old
English and then translate it into Klingon is a very slow and
painstaking process for me. I would want to study Old English in
greater depth before helping you with this. It would probably take me
months to accomplish this task. If you are familiar with Old English, I
suggest you develop your knowledge of Klingon first, before undertaking
such an ambitious project. On the other hand, if there are any expert
Klingonists out there who happen to have a good knowledge of Old English,
perhaps they could help you. Takers anyone?
> yIpIv, 'anreyaS-vo'
yoDtargh