tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Jan 31 06:15:13 1995

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Re: KLBC

According to Kay Tracy:
> 
>                        Subject:                               Time:11:49 AM
>   OFFICE MEMO          KLBC                                   Date:1/30/95
> 
> KLBC
> I am attempting (with small bites) to feed my hunger in learning this
> language.  I have been reading Musashi's  book of five rings (spheres)
> vagh moQmey paq

Consider {vagh ghomey paq}.

> My abilities in exacting sentance structure bits in English leads to
> frustration in obtaining correct structure in tlIngan Hol so...:
> 
> He SuvtaH batlh yIn SuvwI' Hevam tlha'

You have two main verbs (SuvtaH and tlha') with no explanation
as to why they are both in the same sentence. First reading
yields the two sentences: "Honor is fighting the course. It
follows this course of a soldier's life." Reading your English,
my first guess would be:

reH batlh bISuvtaHchugh vaj SuvwI' He DaghoS.

I think {ghoS} is a FAR better verb for "follow (a course)"
than {tlha'}, which I think is far better suited to "follow
(that ship)". {tlha'} is meant for following objects. {ghoS} is
meant for moving along an established path. The object of
{ghoS} will always be a path or something strongly associated
with a path, like a destination or starting point. That's why
{ghoS} has so many different definitions.

All of this assumes that Klingon uses the analogy of a course
referring to a pattern of behavior, as in English, we use the
word "way". This all may be entirely too idiomatic to truely
suit Klingon. This is why I tend to think this kind of symbolic
text is not the best material for translation.

I know it sounds like I'm waffling here, having recently
praised someone for coming up with "A good warrior does not
show his military strength" and such, but recognize that there
is a substantial difference between that material and this.
That material is advice on what a given person should do or not
do. The material in THIS post is anchored on a symbol. A path
symbolizes a mindset from which one makes choices. This is very
abstract and symbolic and so very difficult to translate to a
new language without clearly understanding the symbolic context
of the new language.

There may very well be no such thing in Klingon as a generic
"warrior's way" using the noun {He}. A course may very well be
only a series of locations from one place to another or a
direction and a distance from origin to destination. Klingons
may very well have never developed any analogy between this and
"right behavior", which is the whole point of this writing.

This is precisely why a lot of Confusus's writings come across
as total gibberish in English. You know, stuff like, "When the
chrimson tide laps at the shores of mistrust, always ride the
back of the turtle of wisdom through the golden gates of
opportunity." No, that's not a real quote. I made it up, but it
makes at LEAST as much sense as some of the stuff Confusus
wrote, if it is literally translated into English.

If you think about it, your quotation REALLY means:

reH batlh SuvtaH SuvwI'na'. "A true warrior always fights
honorably."

> DIch yIra'wI' Hevam tlha' qeqqu'nISchu'taH
> ej Hevam tlha' negh SovnIStaH

{yIra'wI'} is probably not a word, considering that I know of
no canon example or rule that allows for having a prefix on a
verb with a {-wI'} suffix. It would be ESPECIALLY difficult to
figure this out with an imperative prefix. I don't have a clue
as to what this word is supposed to mean. I similarly have no
clue as to how to interpret {tlha' qeqqu'nISchu'taH}, since
that makes two main verbs right next to each other with no
grammatical structure that allows this to happen in a single
sentence. {ej} is mispelled. Again, we've got {tlha'} and
{SovnIStaH} together in what appears to be one sentence with no
reason for them to fit together.

The sentence is too confusing for me to begin to analyze it or
correct it. I think you need to start over.

I'd recommend beginning with material that is not so symbolic,
and start out preferably with something of a simpler structure.
It is best to begin learning to swim at the wading end of the
pool.

> Hopefully I said:
> The course of honorable fighting is the warriors' way of life.
> Commanders in particular  must practice this way, and soldiers also must know
> this way of life.

Your first clue is that you should be able to read your own
Klingon. If you finish translating from English to Klingon and
you can't then go back and translate your Klingon (as if
encountering it for the first time) back into English, then
there is an excellent chance nobody else will be able to,
either.

Instead, there is often for beginners the tendency to start out
with material that is too difficult, to begin translating, then
become somewhat confused, and keep adding to what you started
with without ever tossing out any of the hard-earned words
already packed into the sentence. The result is an impressive
list of words that often do not resemble sentences.

charghwI'
-- 

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