tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Jan 23 06:06:43 1995
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Re: easy sentences
- From: [email protected]
- Subject: Re: easy sentences
- Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 09:02:16 -0500
>> The same is true between jIDo'be' and jIDo'Ha'. The first
>> means, "I am not lucky." The second means, "I am unlucky." The
>> first is true if I lose a few credits at cards. The second is
>> true if I lose my house, my ship and my first born son playing
>> cards. There is a qualitative difference between {-be'} and
>> {-Ha'}, but the sense of CHANGE is merely one possible form of
>> it. Meanwhile, when you really want to express the sense of
>> "change", you need {choH}.
>>
>> [...] the main thrust
>> of {-Ha'} ... is to actively reverse the action of the root
>> verb.
>>
>Maybe that is the point: I tried to reverse the action of
>the whole verb - but then again I wouldn't want it to reverse
>type 7 suffixes as well. Hmm. So I do agree now, that
>-choHlaHbe' is correct.
>However I still don't see your point about -Ha' not denoting
>a change from positive to negative. Of all the meanings
>Okrand gives us to approximately translate -Ha', which are
>"undo", "mis-", "de-", "dis-" and "wrongly", three denote
>a change ("undo", "de-" and "dis-"), while the other two
>denote a wrong way of acting.
>None of them seems to indicate a qualitative difference
>between -be' and -Ha', the way you write above.
Jetzt reicht's aber. Bitte, man soll sich nicht so lange streiten. Die
Loesung ist einfach. Ich schlage Ihnen vor, dass Sie Sich nur die Beispiele,
damit Okrand die Bedeutungen von Woerter gezeigt hat.
Sehen Sie daran. Auf Seiten 47-48 (und moeglich anderswo) koennen Sie nun die
Bedeutung von {-Ha'} verstehen.
{chen} = "build up, take form"
{chenHa'} = "destroy"
Ok, enough. Anyways, do you see how {chenHa'} works here? It is just
describing an action that is the opposite of {chen}. You are not really
reversing the action. You are only doing the action backwards, if that makes
any sense.
The same goes for {chu'Ha'}. There is no change of action. All you do is the
opposite of {chu'}.
That is one use of {-Ha'}. You can also use it to mean the semantic opposite,
as in {Do'Ha'}. There is no change of state. {Do'Ha'} just means the state is
contrasting to {Do'}. {Do'be'} is just neither {Do'} nor {Do'Ha'}, but just
neutral, between the two extremes. Similarly, {mIp} means "rich", while
{mIpbe'} means "not rich (but not poor either)" while {mIpHa'} means "poor".
Do you see how that works?
So, the main meaning of {-Ha'} is opposite.
But there's one other way to use it, to mean that something was performed
wrongly. {jatlhHa'} means "misspeak," or "say something wrongly." {loyHa'}
means "guess wrongly," and so forth.
So, {-Ha'} is just "opposite" or "wrongly". I hope that clears things up. If
you're unclear on anything else, just ask here and someone would be glad to
explain it in a way that clearer than Okrand.
Guido