tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Dec 18 06:27:30 1995
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Re: {-meH} and {Sov} (was Re: KLBC: starting right back...)
According to R.B Franklin:
>
> On Thu, 14 Dec 1995, Marc Ruehlaender wrote:
>
> > > jonta' tI'meH mIw Sov. (In order to fix the engine, she knows the
> > > procedure.)
> > > vaS'a' ghoSlu'meH He vISov. (In order for one to go towards the Great Hall,
> > > I know the route.)
> > >
> > I wonder. Do these really make sense to you? To me,
> > knowing is a state that's no purpose. I either know
> > something or I don't. Me LEARNING that particular
> > fact may have had a purpose, though.
While I don't have my TKD with me, my memory is that a -meH
clause can modify either a verb or a NOUN. This caused me much
angst at one point, but I've resolved it and in this case it is
useful. The purpose of the procedure is "in order to fix the
engine". The purpose of the course/path is "in order that one
goes to the great hall".
So this works for me. Meanwhile, I also very much value simpler
recastings like {jonta'mey vItI'laH}. The second one requires a
better understanding of exactly what the English implied, since
a good Klingon translation would be more specific:
vaS'a' He vISov.
vaS'a' vIghoSlaH.
vaS'a' Daq vISov.
vaS'a'Daq qatlheghlaH.
and more, if I had not sprinted to my current location, leaving
my dictionaries behind...
> This may be a valid criticism. The use of "know" would need to imply that
> the reason he knows the procedure is from having learned it for that
> purpose. Perhaps you could substitute {Sov} with {ghojpu'}.
Again, I think the purpose clause is modifying the object, not
the verb.
> I get dizzy thinking about this. There is definitely some merit to
> tlheghmeQ's suggestion of simply saying {jonta'mey tI'laH}.
qaQochbe'qu'.
> > On the other hand, the first one may be (according
> > to 6.2.4.) "She knows (the procedure to fix the engine)."
> > (the second correspondingly). I've never been very
> > comfortable with this usage of {-meH}. In order to
> > construct the meanings yoDtargh has given above, and
> > which I questioned, would one use sth. like
> > {mIw jonta' tI'meH Sov}?
>
> I don't think this works. For one thing, {mIw jonta'} doesn't make sense.
I think this is totally a screwup of word order.
> > HomDoq
>
> yoDtargh
charghwI'
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