tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Sep 21 23:14:58 1994

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KLBC: {pong} revisited



charghwI',

I didn't expect such a large response...  wow...

I think I understand your point (and the other messages about apposition).

What I was trying the do in my second attempt {jIhvaD Craig vIpong} was to
use an indirect object i.e. "For me, I name Craig.".  I guess I was
stretching the indirect object construct too far.

I would, however, like to explore some other alternatives.

Your suggestion {charghwI' mupong tlhInganpu'} seems to cause "me" (implied
object of the {mu-} prefix) to be equated with {charghwI'} the explicit
direct-object.  Now, if there were a "I-me" prefix it would be easy; but,
how about {Qaygh jIpongegh) for "I name myself Qaygh".  I don't know if the
{-egh} form can take an explicit direct-object -- TKD say you must use the
"no object" prefixes, but doesn't say anything about an explicit object
itself.

Other attempts along similar lines include:

{Qaygh vIponglu}   "One calls me Qaygh"
Well perhapes it's "Someone calls me Qaygh" which isn't quite right.  But,
although TDK translates {-lu} as "someone/something", it also states that
{-lu} is used where the subject is "unknown, indefinite and/or general."
The "general" use would seem to work -- like the English "they call me
Qaygh" when "they" is used in the general (indefinite) way.

How about:

{Qaygh mupong}   "They call me Qaygh"
Or does the thlIngan "they" always have to refer to some definite group.

Or perhaps:

{Qaygh mupong Hoch}   "Everyone calls me Qaygh"



On an similar subject you translated {jIhvaD Craig vIpong} as "For my
benefit, I call Craig.".  I would understand "I call Craig" to mean I
request (demand?) Craig to come here -- another English meaning for "call",
Is {pong} used in this sense too?

Qaygh




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