tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed May 18 13:03:40 1994
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Re: plurality of everything
- From: [email protected]
- Subject: Re: plurality of everything
- Date: Thu, 19 May 94 01:01:07 EDT
> Reply to: RE>>plurality of everything
>jatlh charghwI':
>>I suggest that the rule in TKD 3.3.2, page 24 should
>>take care of this. "Inherently plural nouns are treated
>>grammatically as singular nouns in that singular pronouns are
>>used to refer to them..." I vote for {Hoch luSov...}
>Hmm, interesting. This seems reasonable, but it leaves me
>rather puzzled about a sentence I wrote a couple of days ago:
>chaq mu'ghommeymajDaq 'Iw wIchaghnIS Hoch .
>If Hoch is singular, then wIchaghnIS is incorrect. But it doesn't
>make sense to try to say "We all should ..." without using a first
>person plural prefix, right? "vIchaghnIS Hoch" is nonsense! On
>the other hand, I was a little uneasy about the apposition of the
>subject in this sentence anyway. How would you say "We all" as
>a subject?
>--nachHegh
>[email protected]
The qualification of personal pronouns in Klingon (e.g., "some of us", "all
of you", "a lot of them") has been something I could never really fully
accept. It just seemed that {maH Hoch} didn't fit into the "noun-noun
construction" category since then it'd have to be {Hochmaj}, which some
prefer, but that seems too English to me.
I'm willing now to go with {maH Hoch}, in which {Hoch} is used as it is in
many other constructions like {HoD Hoch} or {'Iw Hoch}. I know Okrand used
{Hoch} in this way on PK, (I can't remember the specific example), but I
don't know how {Hoch} is considered grammatically. Not really an adjectival,
probably closer to a noun. That's OK. Languages often solve semantic
limitations by idiomatic grammar.
In {'Iw wIchaghnIS Hoch}, it looks to me like {Hoch} is modifying an implicit
{maH}, since of course all pronouns used as a subject or object can be left
out. In fact, most often pronouns are only used for emphasis, clarity, or if
followed by a Type 5 suffix. So that little clause is imesho perfectly fine
as far as the prefix goes.
I would believe that if {Hoch} is used to modify another noun or nominal, it
has no grammatical influence on the prefix. If used alone, it is treated like
a singular noun (3rd person).
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